Pennant collectors

[Hankphenom]

If these aren't phony, I'll eat one. Alright, I'll be charitable and call them folk art, made about two weeks ago in commemoration of eBay.
Hank Thomas

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

If these aren't phony, I'll eat one. Alright, I'll be charitable and call them folk art, made about two weeks ago in commemoration of eBay.
Hank Thomas

like

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

If these aren't phony, I'll eat one. Alright, I'll be charitable and call them folk art, made about two weeks ago in commemoration of eBay.
Hank Thomas

+1

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

If these aren't phony, I'll eat one. Alright, I'll be charitable and call them folk art, made about two weeks ago in commemoration of eBay.
Hank Thomas

They were won by 3 different buyers. Would 3 different buyers be duped into the $1000's. To spend that much on a pennant, I'd think u'd have to be fairly knowledgeable on the subject. Too odd that 3 wealthy novices noticed the auctions.

But since they all look alike I can't see them being made in 1920 and then again in 1927 and lookng the exact same, nothing is the exact same in 7 years. I can just look at my belly to notice that.

[perezfan]

FWIW, I believe they were real.

The graphics and styles were 100% consistent with other exemplars from the 1920s. I have seen about half a dozen pennants from this series... including the Brooklyn variation twice prior. All have sold for at least 4 figures. The 1919 Chisox Pennant of this style is the obvious "Kingpin" and realized $34,500 in Halper (Lot 543).

The materials (both felt and paint) were correct, and showed the expected aging/wear of pennants from this era. The grommets which secure the tassels were correct as well.

It does, perhaps seem somewhat unlikely that this style would span 8 years (1919 - 1927), but pennants from the 1920s are scarce, with not a lot of differing variations. For whatever reason, there are far more existing pennants from the Teens than from the 1920s.

Production seemed to pick up dramatically in the '30s and beyond. And for the record... all of those 1950s/60s "Stadium" variations spanned a much longer time period than the pennants in question here. As did a number of other styles.... especially the Yankees (Uncle Sam Head), Dodgers (Emmett Kelly Bum) and Indians (Big Nosed Chief Wahoo). Those three designs were produced for at least a 10 year span.

Just my 2 cents...

[perezfan]

Also wanted to add that this selller does not concentrate on sports-related items or memorabilia. Most of what he was selling was misc. antique stuff from various estates. No other sports memorabilia, or anything sports-related. It's not like he was an "Acofind" or one of those other Ohio-based sellers with a track record of counterfeits.

Why would he go to the trouble/expense of making these rather unattractive and aesthetically unpleasing examples? Why pick a style that required the application of the grommets? It makes no sense, and there is no evidence to support this accusation. Especially when there are other identical exemplars from past auctions, offered via major auction houses.

Editing to note that the un-dated Browns example sold for $273. Here are links to the two that were not linked above...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1920-Brookly...item4cfcf20873

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1920s-St-Lou...item5647b8caaf

[perezfan]

Final point, and then I'll shut up....

A beat-up version of this specific Dodgers Pennant can be found on Page 29 of Mike Egner's Pennant Price Guide (a great reference book for anyone interested in collecting vintage pennants).

[Hankphenom]

Of course, anything's possible, maybe these are the real deal. I'm not the greatest expert on pennants--I'd like to hear what someone like Dave Bushing or Dan Knowl thinks about these. But I've always liked the old pennants, I collect them, have dealt hundreds of them, have seen thousands more over the years. I just don't like the way these look, that's all. They have a homemade appearance to my eyes, the aging and stressing seems too similar between them, also completely unlike the wear and tear I'm used to seeing on old pennants. I especially think the paint on all of them doesn't seem stressed enough, too bright and too fresh-looking, compared to the "aging" on the rest. And I'm not accusing anyone, this seller or anyone else. I'm just saying I don't think they were made contemporaneously with the events they commemorate, that's all. They could have been made at any time, by any one, and they have made their way through the hobby. That's my two cents, worth no more and no less than anyone else's.
Hank Thomas

[thetahat]

Thanks everybody. These pennants clearly fit the style seen most often in the old Browns and Cardinals pennants that you see every now and then. They share in common: tassels that are the same color as body of pennant, paint along the wide end as opposed to a seperate sewn-on strip of cloth, and city name written vertically along wide end. The more common STL pennants have the tassels sewn on; the '39 Browns and Cardinals tassels are attached by grommets like the ones we are discussing. In my opinion these are definitely very old - can't tell for certain without holding them but I'd be at about 98% sure. I agree with Mark in that if you're gonna reproduce a pennant, you'd go for a better looking one rather than one with a generic baseball design; and even if this was done some years ago, you sure don't see many of them around.