Top T206 Wagner's in existence (according to Legendary)

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

What happened to collector privacy? Past owners are typically cited with regards to an object's provenance, but some of those current owners might not want their name out there.

I'm pretty sure your statemnt was brought up when Mastro had their live auction with the Jumbo Wagner in 2008. They had an almost identical write up.

If I remember correctly, they did that without any sort of consent from the collectors.

Tony

[ullmandds]

IT seems kinda odd to me that 3 of the top 8-10 or so t206 wagners are described as "jumbo"...or oversized?

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

IT seems kinda odd to me that 3 of the top 8-10 or so t206 wagners are described as "jumbo"...or oversized?

And at least one has been described by some at "trimboed"....

[barrysloate]

The internet age has nothing to do with privacy in this regard. These owners did not have that information out there. Legendary knew who they were and posted their names. I spoke to one of the people on that list after it was first revealed and he was not happy. He in turn spoke to a second member on it who was equally unhappy. The names of the owners of the top Wagners were never on the internet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The list would have been just as informative if the current owner was listed as a private collector. If Doug did not have consent, or if the ownership was not common knowledge, he may have overstepped.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The list would have been just as informative if the current owner was listed as a private collector. If Doug did not have consent, or if the ownership was not common knowledge, he may have overstepped.

Exactly the way it should have been done.

[Shoeless Moe]

I thought Charlie Sheen owned one of those at one time?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

IT seems kinda odd to me that 3 of the top 8-10 or so t206 wagners are described as "jumbo"...or oversized?

Peter - it actually makes sense. I doubt any Wagner cards actually made it into production. If there are only 50-100 in existence, how many were printed? Did they print a few dozen sheets, release them into production (put them in packs), then send the representative to broker a deal with Wagner? I doubt it. If they were going to do that, they would have printed many more cards first. I think they knew selling Wagner was going to be tough (for reasons unknown to us), so they never released those sheets. Most of them, if not all, were hand-cut, resulting in all the jumbos (and former jumbos) that we see now, and they ended up in the hands of employees and friends. In other words, they had the production process ready in case he said 'yes', but he didn't.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Peter - it actually makes sense. I doubt any Wagner cards actually made it into production. If there are only 50-100 in existence, how many were printed? Did they print a few dozen sheets, release them into production (put them in packs), then send the representative to broker a deal with Wagner? I doubt it. If they were going to do that, they would have printed many more cards first. I think they knew selling Wagner was going to be tough (for reasons unknown to us), so they never released those sheets. Most of them, if not all, were hand-cut, resulting in all the jumbos (and former jumbos) that we see now, and they ended up in the hands of employees and friends. In other words, they had the production process ready in case he said 'yes', but he didn't.

Scott I disagree with you here, Wagner and Plank in the Sweet Cap most likely made it into production in some shape or form.

The fact that so few survived is not a good indication of did something go into production or not. We have tons of cards that are way more obscure and in less numbers than the T206 Wagner that we know were put into production and distribution J=K Candy Cards, T208 Fireside, E221, T215 Pirate the list could go on and on.

The Jumbo oversized is combo of two things IMO. One more of these cards have been tucked away in long time older collections and hacked less. Two back in the day oversized T206’s were common place I had finds of thousands of cards and held and bought many more. Back in those days raw super sized cards with big borders top and bottom sometimes both were very common.



In fact old school collectors use to trim the bottoms of these cards to fit them in the early sheets ughh like my old Magie that I sold to a board member.



Why do you not see many of these “jumbo” T206’s today? Where did many of these super sized T206’s go you ask?Just check your PSA set reg for the many PSA8’s and 9’s sad but true big bordered T206’s are like the white rhino of the card world along with others.

Just my two cents but what do I know I’m a hack and I don’t even have a website.

Cheers,

John

P.S. I see nothing wrong with what Legendary did in giving provenance and background calling out a significant auction of a special card. It happens in the art world all the time. They did a very good job of giving good info for the potential buyers while being respectful of current owners IMO.

[wonkaticket]

Doug,

As a collector who is two cards away from finishing this set I long for the day where I can be angry with you for talking about my Wagner card. Let’s set a date for that call now how does your schedule look?

Cheers,

John

[barrysloate]

John- it's up to the current owners to decide whether or not they want their name out there, and the auction house should have contacted them first to get their permission. As I said, I spoke in length to one of those collectors, and he said he was not contacted and wasn't happy to see his name in print.

Provenance is unquestionably a very important part of any collecting field, and any former owner is fair game. I suppose once you sell your Wagner you are also selling your rights to privacy. But current owners do have the right to remain anonymous if that is their choice.

And I don't have a website either, but I hope there will be many more, because the more websites, the more people are fighting on Net54.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

And I don't have a website either, but I hope there will be many more, because the more websites, the more people are fighting on Net54.

I agree Barry, so here ya go-

"Everybody" stop fighting, NOW!!! ..there, that should do it.


.
.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

And I don't have a website either, but I hope there will be many more, because the more websites, the more people are fighting on Net54.

There should only be one website for everything - then the owners can be god and anyone who dissents will be smited.

Scott <=== already smited.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Just my two cents but what do I know I’m a hack and I don’t even have a website.

Cheers,

John

Could be. The fact is, though - 3 out of the 'top 10' were hacked, AND the Wagner is scarce. The fact that there are other jumbos out there doesn't change my opinion on this. To me, the math doesn't add up for the theory that production began and then was halted due to Wagner complaining. To me, we would see more cards - also, people were more likely to save cards of guys like Wagner.

I'm also a hack - much moreso than you, and I have no idea what your website comment has to do with anything.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Could be. The fact is, though - 3 out of the 'top 10' were hacked, AND the Wagner is scarce. The fact that there are other jumbos out there doesn't change my opinion on this. To me, the math doesn't add up for the theory that production began and then was halted due to Wagner complaining. To me, we would see more cards - also, people were more likely to save cards of guys like Wagner.

I'm also a hack - much moreso than you, and I have no idea what your website comment has to do with anything.

Scott,

Curious to know what information you can share which of the top 10 cards above have been hacked besides the obvious P150 PSA 8. I would love to hear this.

I still disagree with you’re reasoning I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around it….

You basically say that because you feel many Wagner’s are trimmed and there are 50 or cards in your opinion that the card never made it into production. Using that same set of standards and applying it to other T206 rarities then would you say the following were also never issued?

Brown Lenox 15-20+ examples known with trimmed examples.

Broad Leaf 460 40-50+ Examples known with trimmed examples.

Were these cards also not issued to the public? They fit your criteria 50 or so examples or very few left and trimmed ones are present. I’m just not following you and that’s ok.

John

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Scott,

Curious to know what information you can share which of the top 10 cards above have been hacked besides the obvious P150 PSA 8. I would love to hear this.

Sorry, 'Jumbo', not necessarily trimmed. No new information - just assuming Peter's comment was correct. Peter, if you were lying to us, I'm crawling through my computer screen and swatting you.

I still disagree with you’re reasoning I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around it….

You basically say that because you feel many Wagner’s are trimmed and there are 50 or cards in your opinion that the card never made it into production. Using that same set of standards and applying it to other T206 rarities then would you say the following were also never issued?

Brown Lenox 15-20+ examples known with trimmed examples.

Broad Leaf 460 40-50+ Examples known with trimmed examples.

Were these cards also not issued to the public? They fit your criteria 50 or so examples or very few left and trimmed ones are present. I’m just not following you and that’s ok.

John

John, I think your logic regarding my logic is faulty An apple is round and an orange is round. That doesn't make an apple an orange.

Besides, I'm just guessing. I haven't seen any theories that made more sense, so I've submitted my own. If it appears on your new website, please acknowledge me.

The BL 460 and brown Lennox are not all involving a single player. My thinking is that the backs on the Wagner are somewhat irrelevant in trying to determine how/why so few were produced - the 'Wagner producers' chose backs that they were printing at the time for other cards in the series, and printed them on the backs of the sheets containing Wagners.

Another reason my theory is probably wrong is that you would expect to see some scrap Wagners as well, and I don't think any exist - please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm just tossing this out there for discussion. It's probably wrong.

I don't appreciate your mentioning the rarity of BL 460's - I know it's just a cruel jab at me, realizing I'm still in mourning over my two losses seven years ago

[glchen]

And the Dreier Wagner is sold. That was fast.