Derek Jeter Forgery Baseball Unbelievable!!!

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Why don't you put together some photos, Chris, so we can all see the evolution?

I concur with David. That's what I was looking for in the Mays Wife signed thread from last week. Speaking for myself, I'm interested in learning how to tell the difference regardless if it's Mays, Mantle, Ruth, Gehrig or Jeter. And for a novice like me, it's much easier to have the signatures side by side.

My expertize lies in Baseball Photography, and although it can be very difficult for many to determine what TYPE classifications a particular image is, I've become quite adapt at it. It helps tremendously that some of the most knowledgeable photo experts in the hobby schooled me for several years, as well as my desire to continue to learn as much as possible to the point of obsessive compulsive.

I often wonder how this board's top auto members learned so much. Other than Jamie & Richard who are professionals, how do the rest of you guys garner such knowledge? David has been at it much, much longer than most of us, and he has scores and scores of signed items from the last 50-90 years in his collection. It's also quite clear to me that David, much like myself, isn't satisfied until he gets results from endless research. I would imagine that many of us who are serious about what we collect also have a support network in place, be it fellow knowledgeable collectors, dealers, professionals, as well as net54 and other like websites.

But the way I see it, there is just no substitute for hands-on learning and I mean that literally. I was fortunate enough to go through a huge legitimate photo archive. I flew thousands of miles and drove over a hundred miles of back roads just to get there. But that was the best decision I've made in regards to the hobby, as I spent 12-15 hours a day for several days, and the knowledge and experience I gained took me to a much higher level of expertise and understanding.

So this brings me to how in the heck do you guys learn so much without studying real exemplars? Are scans good enough? Do scans suffice if you already have a ton of hands-on experience? In most cases I wouldn't think so. I'm sure that that's the reason a PSA Quick Opinion never gives a definitive answer without the item in hand. I don't get it. Not to mention all the nuances and irregularities due to a plethora of reasons that signatures from the same person might not match up from time to time. Hell, how many of you guys got an autograph in person, only to be shot down once you sent it in to get authenticated?

Granted that Jeter signatures, good or bad can be seen in person at card shows across the country, as well as Mantles (excluding 1951-1965 because 99.5% of Mantle autos you see at shows are from the last few decades) and the same with Williams, Mays, Aaron, Etc. Plenty of hands-on opportunities to be had there of newer signatures.

But, how does a collector that is a non-professional gain enough knowledge and experience to decisively answer Yes, No, No Way, Not a Chance, and so on, when presented with autographs of players from 1910-1960?

Am I missing something? Are there advanced books or DVD's that go into great detail about how to spot fake autos? Are there seminars were you can actually learn from an expert in a hands-on atmosphere?

I'm just curious as hell how so many know so much with out said training/hands-on experience.

Now I'm not asking to cause any trouble, and I know that there are guys like Rhys here that have paid their dues and really know their fields, but it seems that the several collectors like Rhys and David are few and far between.

What I would love to see on these autograph threads are more of what David suggest. More examples laid side by side and some of the details explained at least to some extant. Those of us that have asked for reasons have been flicked aside a few times, and I now feel that it makes it harder for us to ask again.

Now, regarding the Mays thread from last week. I put the two signatures side by side as was suggested and studied them on several occasions, but I must say that all of that effort I put into it only made me feel that my original though was correct in that these two signatures were both not signed by Mrs Mays. However, if the reasons why were pointed out in some reasonable detail and explanation, then I would have been thrilled to learn something new and would have never felt the need to write this novella.

[travrosty]

takes looking at them a long time, repetition.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Great analogies, Travis.

I've always written and stated on video that my only reason that I write for blogs and do videos is to expose forgeries and those that sell them. That's what I do. Period.

If other knowledgeable autograph collectors want to explain why a particular autograph is a forgery or a secretarial that's great, but it's not what I do.

[David Atkatz]

All hat, no cattle.

[travrosty]

Everyone should do it in their own way, in the way they want to. not personal. just take his opinion and get others from other people and there you go.

[perezfan]

I don't really collect modern autographs, but would also be very interested to see the Derek Jeter "style evolution" through the years. The fakes above are no-brainers, but I would be eager to see his earlier styles.

If anyone else would take the time to post the earlier variations, it would be much appreciated

[Mr. Zipper]

In my view, it takes a proactive effort. You can't become really good by passively looking at an autograph on occasion. You need to look and study a lot of autographs over time.

* Set up daily ebay searches and review the auctions. Eventually you will begin to see the differences and patterns in autographs between legit sellers and suspect items. When you see a certain signature and know what seller it came from, you know it is starting to click.

* Ask questions of experienced collectors. I've learned a lot here by simply reading the threads and asking questions via private message.

* Don't just focus on the "shape" of the autograph. That is only one part of the equation.

I have been collecting and studying space autographs for many years and have written and contributed to a number of studies. It took years of active studying and looking at thousands of exemplars. Now, I can look at certain autographs and know within a year or two when it was signed.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

All hat, no cattle.

And the barn door was just opened again

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mschwade

And the barn door was just opened again

+1
This will be the only comment from me on this thread unless the thread reverts back to what it should be.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

All hat, no cattle.

This is an open post to Leon and the other Net54 members. This thread was started by me to expose a horrific Jeter forgery and once again David Atkatz has interrupted an autograph thread with the above personal attack.

David, what motivation do you have for personal attacks? This is not the first time for you to launch personal attacks. I've done over 190 YouTube videos exposing forgeries and I expected personal attacks from the bad guys watching my YouTube videos, but I don't understand David's personal attack here. I won't launch any personal attack against David as I feel his sad actions speak for themselves. I just wanted to alert the members here that David Atkatz has started his "thing" once again.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I won't launch any personal attack against David as I feel his sad actions speak for themselves. I just wanted to alert the members here that David Atkatz has started his "thing" once again.

My thing?

At least three times on this forum you were asked to provide "educational" help. You either ignored the requests, or outright refused.

I've watched your videos. I've watched you consistently attack the ignorant buyers. "Morons and idiots," you call them.

Instead of name-calling, why won't you help us to learn?

[thetruthisoutthere]

For that one person who is unable to understand English, I will repeat a previous post of mine below.

I've always written and stated on video that my only reason that I write for blogs and do videos is to expose forgeries and those that sell them. That's what I do. Period.

If other knowledgeable autograph collectors want to explain why a particular autograph is a forgery or a secretarial that's great, but it's not what I do.