1930's Homestead Grays Team Photo

[jerseygary]

Whether or not it's a reproduction, I don't know, but I do know the dates given are wrong because of the uniform style and the presence of Jud Wilson on the team. He played for the Grays twice, 1930-31 (they had simple gray uniforms with "GRAYS" in block letters) and 1940-45 when they wore different styles almost every season. According to my notes, based on the uniforms this is the 1942 team.

[bcbgcbrcb]

The most distinctive thing about the photo that sticks in my mind is the spider veins effect in the background of the upper-half of the photo, clearly evident in the enlarged scan provided. Also, you can't tell from the scans but once you have it in hand, the photo quality is not that of an original photo.

Gary:

You are correct, it is the 1942 team.

[prewarsports]

That looks like a reproduction for sure based on the ink and paper from an enlarged scan.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

The most distinctive thing about the photo that sticks in my mind is the spider veins effect in the background of the upper-half of the photo, clearly evident in the enlarged scan provided. Also, you can't tell from the scans but once you have it in hand, the photo quality is not that of an original photo.

Gary:

You are correct, it is the 1942 team.

Looks like they are advertising it as a "Premium", not an original photo. It could very well be a printed photo from close to the era. Looks old, just not original.

[bcbgcbrcb]

I don't really think so, Dave. I believe that it is a modern reproduction intentionally printed on aged paper made to mislead people.

A few years ago (when I originally bought mine), there were quite a number of these types of Negro League pieces originating out of the Midwest. I also owned an individual Satchel Paige photo that also turned out to be a fake and I lost some money on that one also.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

I don't really think so, Dave. I believe that it is a modern reproduction intentionally printed on aged paper made to mislead people.

A few years ago (when I originally bought mine), there were quite a number of these types of Negro League pieces originating out of the Midwest. I also owned an individual Satchel Paige photo that also turned out to be a fake and I lost some money on that one also.

You could be right Phil. Hard to tell without having it in hand I guess. I had several similar style photos last year that came within a collection of older material I wasn't sure about either.

I ended up selling them on Ebay as a group of unknown dated photo prints, including Paige (to a Net54 member), for a song.

Actually, I ended up giving them away for free because our cat puked on some of them between the auction listing and when I shipped them out LOL!!!

The cat probably knew something I didn't.

[Hankphenom]

Has that distinctive coloration, not sure what the process is, but by now we've all seen hundreds of them--photos, posters, cards, etc.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Looks like they are advertising it as a "Premium", not an original photo. It could very well be a printed photo from close to the era. Looks old, just not original.

Thats what I was thinking. Only the original Poster has actually held this, so he's the only one who knows for sure, but the scan looks similar to some of the cheap premiums that I've seen from that era. It doesn't have to be a real photo to have collectible value.

[prewarsports]

Regardless of whether we are talking print or photo (this would obviously be a print) it is not authentic, you can tell by the paper and the crazing in the black portions and the fact that the photo is not very crisp. 1942 was during WW2 and paper was scarce, but technology was good. I doubt that they would have made a "print" of a Negro League team at this time period where paper was in such short supply that they were having scrap paper drives on every street corner. 99.9% sure by sight alone this is not authentic to the period add in the WW2 factor and with Phil's assesment I would say we are pretty certain here.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

Regardless of whether we are talking print or photo (this would obviously be a print) it is not authentic, you can tell by the paper and the crazing in the black portions and the fact that the photo is not very crisp. 1942 was during WW2 and paper was scarce, but technology was good. I doubt that they would have made a "print" of a Negro League team at this time period where paper was in such short supply that they were having scrap paper drives on every street corner. 99.9% sure by sight alone this is not authentic to the period add in the WW2 factor and with Phil's assesment I would say we are pretty certain here.

I'm sure it's not authentic, because the original poster (the only one who has held the piece) says so.

I'm surprised that every print you've seen from the '40s was crisp and made using the best technology available - I've seen plenty of cheap-looking items, some much cheaper-looking than this, that were period.

But if everything you've seen was made using the best technology available (and you've never seen any 1940's supplements or premiums), then I completely understand why you are 99% sure that this is not period.

[jerseygary]

I agree with what Runscott said, I've seen many poor quality print items from the war years - I collect scorecards from that period and the paper and printing especially on minor league items are worse than they were in the 1930's when quality paper stocks were limitless and all the master printers were not in the service. I'd venture to say that ephemera from Negro League teams would be of the same quality as the minor league and semi-pro stuff I have. As for wartime shortages, the Grays made much of their money playing exhibition games with town and semi-pro teams even during the war and advertising was very important so I could see how a generic team photo might have been produced in 1942 or 43 by the Grays to send out in a press kit type of thing but I would expect a team name or contact to be printed on the front or back. If it is on card stock it could have been cut down from a larger broadside - we've all seen that before.

That all said, I'm in the camp that this is not real, just made to look old. The printing looks a little "soft" to me, not what I would expect from that time period. The paper looks too aged as well - wartime paper was pretty poor stuff but unless this is printed on thin paper (which is very brittle and turns yellow) and not a card stock I would expect it to have been a little less yellow.

And by the way Smokey Joe Williams is not in that team photo - he retired about 10 years before the shot was taken.