Muhammad Ali Autograph on Angelo Marino REAL?

[grandstand69]

Travis, just in case you were interested I went to the storage and pulled 20 of the 300+ Ali Lithographs I mentioned. I took some pictures of the pieces I'll be selling off. You mentioned if you saw a few all together it would be easier, so I've done just that. I also have another angle of Ali Signing which clearly shows location. Keep in mind I'm bugging the experts in this field only because I don't want an item kicked off eBay which in turn hurts my selling standard rating. I know my grandfather and pops would not have left these to me to sell if something shady was behind it all. Hopefully this helps.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by grandstand69

Travis, just in case you were interested I went to the storage and pulled 20 of the 300+ Ali Lithographs I mentioned. I took some pictures of the pieces I'll be selling off. You mentioned if you saw a few all together it would be easier, so I've done just that. I also have another angle of Ali Signing which clearly shows location. Keep in mind I'm bugging the experts in this field only because I don't want an item kicked off eBay which in turn hurts my selling standard rating. I know my grandfather and pops would not have left these to me to sell if something shady was behind it all. Hopefully this helps.

thanks, it does help. you know that these are good. You don't have to prove it to anyone, except maybe ebay if they question it. but thats the problem if they want to sink it, they will and not much you can do. Doesn't mean they are no good, just that ebay wont allow them to be listed. True boxing collectors that know what they are doing will go by the signature, not the artist who made the lithograph, no matter how he is connected to past forgeries. The autograph will stand on its own. There will always be people who see the Marino family name and won't want anything associated with it, even if its legit. That's their perogative, but it means that much more for the rest of us, who want Ali's signature and not Angelo's. but also don't let the Angelo connection sink a good autograph.

however, if you put one on ebay, you cant just tell ebay that this guy or that guy checked them out. because they dont listen, they will go with what psa or whoever they have on staff thinks. thats a big problem, but its not something anyone else can solve. i think having the photo of ali signing the lithographs would help prove your case to ebay in case they tried to pull it. but otherwise it is a crabshoot.

If they are hell bent on taking them off of ebay, then they will, and it will be because someone reported it and psa or someone else they rely on agreed, (rightly or wrongly), and saying that this boxing guy or that one liked it won't help unfortunately. I wish it would help.

The good news is that good, legit Ali signatures are good legit Ali signatures. Nothing can change it and there will always be a market for it.

[Ringking]

Originally Posted by travrosty

thanks, it does help. you know that these are good. You don't have to prove it to anyone, except maybe ebay if they question it. but thats the problem if they want to sink it, they will and not much you can do. Doesn't mean they are no good, just that ebay wont allow them to be listed. True boxing collectors that know what they are doing will go by the signature, not the artist who made the lithograph, no matter how he is connected to past forgeries. The autograph will stand on its own. There will always be people who see the Marino family name and won't want anything associated with it, even if its legit. That's their perogative, but it means that much more for the rest of us, who want Ali's signature and not Angelo's. but also don't let the Angelo connection sink a good autograph.

however, if you put one on ebay, you cant just tell ebay that this guy or that guy checked them out. because they dont listen, they will go with what psa or whoever they have on staff thinks. thats a big problem, but its not something anyone else can solve. i think having the photo of ali signing the lithographs would help prove your case to ebay in case they tried to pull it. but otherwise it is a crabshoot.

If they are hell bent on taking them off of ebay, then they will, and it will be because someone reported it and psa or someone else they rely on agreed, (rightly or wrongly), and saying that this boxing guy or that one liked it won't help unfortunately. I wish it would help.

The good news is that good, legit Ali signatures are good legit Ali signatures. Nothing can change it and there will always be a market for it.

If you do put it up on ebay and it gets pulled. Just wait about a month. There is going to be a new auction place for people to sell autographs like ebay. More news on this as it becomes available, but I was told tonight that they are 3-4 weeks away from launching. There will be a new 3rd party authentication company also, one that guarantee's it's opinion with a money back promise. SO not only will you get a opinion, you will get one that is backed by cold hard cash!
More details soon...

[grandstand69]

Thanks everyone for all the support. I have had one online now for a few days. From what I gather the listing already passed quick opinion. I did post several different samples from the batch to show it's not a perfect auto every single time. There are a lot of watchers, nobody has questioned me on the signature and bidding seems to be moving along. I have gambled with just 1 right now, if selling price averages out $300+ I will more than likely place in my storefront or Multi auction with buy now. If anyone is interested just do a search for Muhammad Ali "The Greatest" and maybe place a bid and try to win. It's at $105 with 2 days left and 130 watchers. Again thanks to everyone for your support

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Ringking

If you do put it up on ebay and it gets pulled. Just wait about a month. There is going to be a new auction place for people to sell autographs like ebay. More news on this as it becomes available, but I was told tonight that they are 3-4 weeks away from launching. There will be a new 3rd party authentication company also, one that guarantee's it's opinion with a money back promise. SO not only will you get a opinion, you will get one that is backed by cold hard cash!
More details soon...

Ringking I hope this is not going to be another failure.
There have been several attempts in the past to start an autograph auction site.
ebay still has the market cornered.
I sell regularly on ebay. I sell to collectors all over the world. I never did that before ebay came along. They have such a hold on the market that it is a longshot for any startup to take them on.
And about authenticators, there are new authenticators coming out of the woodwork, seemingly every other day.
Do you know what their money back guarantee will consist of? What if the new company says the item is authentic and PSA says it is not. Does that qualify for the money back guarantee?
I would only hope for total success for these ventures but the failures of the past make me really skeptical that any new auction site or new legitimate authentication company can succeed and break the stranglehold of ebay and the alphabet soup authentication companies.

[Ringking]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Ringking I hope this is not going to be another failure.
There have been several attempts in the past to start an autograph auction site.
ebay still has the market cornered.
I sell regularly on ebay. I sell to collectors all over the world. I never did that before ebay came along. They have such a hold on the market that it is a longshot for any startup to take them on.
And about authenticators, there are new authenticators coming out of the woodwork, seemingly every other day.
Do you know what their money back guarantee will consist of? What if the new company says the item is authentic and PSA says it is not. Does that qualify for the money back guarantee?
I would only hope for total success for these ventures but the failures of the past make me really skeptical that any new auction site or new legitimate authentication company can succeed and break the stranglehold of ebay and the alphabet soup authentication companies.

Richard,
Great points. The people that have went up against Ebay, have done it wrong. There are many auction houses that are doing well on speciality websites, ie, signed books, abebooks.com for instance has over 60 signed harper lee first editions.... Why are these not on ebay? Because people are getting more on the site. Another website that sells antiques has over 700 thousand bidders. That's a lot of people. People are SICK and TIRED of dealing with ebay.

As far as authentication goes, it will be taken on with a case by case basis. (as far as PSA or JSA refunds go)

NOTHING will be done VIA scan, N-O-T-H-I-N-G!

[chaddurbin]

What happened tothe ebay auction? I had it on my watchlist but it seemed to have disappeared?

[grandstand69]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

What happened tothe ebay auction? I had it on my watchlist but it seemed to have disappeared?

eBay took the auction down due to a Trademark Violation. I'm told it was either my mention within text about Operation Bullpen and Talking of Marino and his crimes. OR it was the photograph I placed on the auction showing Ali signing. Even though we own the photo's and the negatives I may need to have permission to use. I've been a little leary on relisting, I want to make sure I'm getting the proper information as I'd hate to get banned from eBay for a 2nd violation. I do have these, I can sell straight to you and still offer our guarantee. As all who have looked at the Litho say, it's a good signature, just a little tainted with the artist past.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Ringking

As far as authentication goes, it will be taken on with a case by case basis. (as far as PSA or JSA refunds go)

Ringking - That does not sound like much of a guarantee to me. Not that I am a defender of the alphabet soup companies,, but a guarantee that reads money back except for blah, blah, blah does not instill confidence.
A $30,000 Babe Ruth signed ball is authenticated by this new company, sold in an auction, and then one of the alphabet guys says nope to it. What happens then? I can only speculate, but are they going to give back $30K?
I am anxious to see who the authenticators are in this new company.
I can think of only a couple of people who would possibly instill enough confidence in the collector, for this company to have an impact.
Ringking - are the authenticators in this company really the type of people to instill this type of confidence in the collector?

[Ringking]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Ringking - That does not sound like much of a guarantee to me. Not that I am a defender of the alphabet soup companies,, but a guarantee that reads money back except for blah, blah, blah does not instill confidence.
A $30,000 Babe Ruth signed ball is authenticated by this new company, sold in an auction, and then one of the alphabet guys says nope to it. What happens then? I can only speculate, but are they going to give back $30K?
I am anxious to see who the authenticators are in this new company.
I can think of only a couple of people who would possibly instill enough confidence in the collector, for this company to have an impact.
Ringking - are the authenticators in this company really the type of people to instill this type of confidence in the collector?

Again, it will be taken on with a case by case basis.

Take the ruth ball.
lets say YOU turn the ball down (not psa/jsa) and this new company says it's a good ball.
Being that you are a expert that people know and use and trust, my thoughts are you would have reasons for why you say the ball is bad. Not the common rejection letter with 2 to 15 things weird with the ball. The company would then look into the reasons you gave, vs the info that they have on the ball and tackle any issues from there.

I'm surprised that you don't know much about this company, as the way I understand it, you were going to be asked to join the company for some of the areas that you are a recognized expert in. Maybe they just have not gotten around to asking you yet.

More info should come out about this soon, as they are close to launching it.