Sir shill is at it again

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Runscott

People have to take responsibility for their own actions. We can not be responsible for going around watching the people you describe to make sure they don't do stupid things with their money, nor is it possible for us to do so.

If someone pays 'a lot' on ebay, thinking it's a vintage card, I have no sympathy for them, as no one has any business spending big bucks on items they know nothing about; i.e - they should at least know whether or not a set or card was ever made.

Regarding buying these in antique stores, etc. - again, you've got no business spending big bucks for something you know nothing about; i.e-these were not created using vintage methods, and if you can hold one in your hand, then you can tell it's not vintage. If you can't tell (such as the people you describe) then buy something you have expertise in.

I know this sounds harsh, but people have to take some responsibility for their own actions.

I completely disagree..this isn't some shady basement dweller making these cards it's a beer company doing it...they should be putting dates on these cards...and not only are they leaving off dates, but they are also using the R319 catalog number on fantasy cards??? This company also made Cap Anson padlocks that fooled a lot of veteran memorabilia collectors. I think what they are doing is highly irresponsible.

[JustinD]

It's not even a beer company.

They just use a fictitious name to manufacture memorabilia. The address of Helmar Brewery on their website is five minutes from my house. I can assure you there is no Helmar Brewery there.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by JustinD

It's not even a beer company.

They just use a fictitious name to manufacture memorabilia. The address of Helmar Brewery on their website is five minutes from my house. I can assure you there is no Helmar Brewery there.

It is (or was) a beer company as I have drank some, naturally being lured by the baseball theme.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

It is (or was) a beer company as I have drank some, naturally being lured by the baseball theme.

Subcontracted to a small batch brewer. Anyone can do it, just like the snacks. The only thing Helmar brews up are those labels.

I decided I wanted some ice cream so I cruised by the "headquarters" of Helmar Brewery just now out of curiosity. It's a 1930's era house in the middle of a nice neighborhood. Which I basically knew because a have a good friend that lives two blocks from there. I can say he's making a decent living out of the basement there.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I completely disagree..this isn't some shady basement dweller making these cards it's a beer company doing it...they should be putting dates on these cards...and not only are they leaving off dates, but they are also using the R319 catalog number on fantasy cards??? This company also made Cap Anson padlocks that fooled a lot of veteran memorabilia collectors. I think what they are doing is highly irresponsible.

You might disagree with me, but you're stating that you disagree with something I didn't say. I agree with you that they should identify these as not being actual old cards. I think I actually stated as much.

Do you really disagree that people have to take responsibility for their own actions? that they should be spending big bucks on items they know nothing about?

Scott <===not the same as his straw man

[glchen]

The part about people having to take responsibility for their own actions is VERY gray. This is true if the seller is very forthcoming about their actions. However, if the seller is not, like in this case where they are deliberating not dating the cards, then it is suspect. Your thought is like saying that all of the people that Bernie Madoff deceived are 100% at fault, and Madoff is not. Those investing in Madoff should've known that this guaranteed returns were impossible. There is a part where people should be responsible for themselves, but should they if they are being scammed?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You might disagree with me, but you're stating that you disagree with something I didn't say. I agree with you that they should identify these as not being actual old cards. I think I actually stated as much.

Do you really disagree that people have to take responsibility for their own actions? that they should be spending big bucks on items they know nothing about?

Scott <===not the same as his straw man

People definitely should educate themselves before plunking down big dollars for fantasy items, the problem I see is that this company not only is making these cards, but also manufacturing fantasy memorabilia items like the Anson Padlock...as you and I both know there are plenty of memorabilia items out there that are thought to be one of a kinds..when you make something to look old, don't date it or put any identifying marks on it at all then IMO you're being irresponsible. If you ran into that padlock in an antique mall you wouldn't know it wasn't old.

http://www.antique-padlocks.com/pg_s...lmar_anson~1~2

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

People definitely should educate themselves before plunking down big dollars for fantasy items, the problem I see is that this company not only is making these cards, but also manufacturing fantasy memorabilia items like the Anson Padlock...as you and I both know there are plenty of memorabilia items out there that are thought to be one of a kinds..when you make something to look old, don't date it or put any identifying marks on it at all then IMO you're being irresponsible. If you ran into that padlock in an antique mall you wouldn't know it wasn't old.

http://www.antique-padlocks.com/pg_s...lmar_anson~1~2

I agree that they are being irresponsible. Makes you wonder what their intent is, making items like the padlock you describe.