The Cincinnati Wagner "Graded"

[glynparson]

but anyone that needs magnification to judge that cards legitimacy needs a new hobby.

[novakjr]

Gotta agree with Glyn. From the naked eye, the card not only appears fake, but is OBVIOUSLY fake. "Unreleased Version"? HA. I find it funny that the first of the "unreleased versions" to be discovered, just so happens to be Wagner. Even if it really is an "unreleased version"(cough), it's still worthless if they can't get anyone to believe them... This card is not and never will be an "unreleased version", a "t206 Wagner", or anything else that you can think of. Hell, it's not even a standard reprint, or just another scam(they've taken it way past that point).. It is "the Cobb/Edwards Wagner", and that's all this card will EVER be... And to top it off these two douchebags had the audacity to play the race card against the hobby, it's experts, and whoever else will listen in regards to this card. These two know it's fake(and probably have all along), and since they couldn't get anyone to side with them, they've been hoping to guilt someone into buying their BS. They can shove it up their @$$es...Which should be even more enjoyable now that it's been slabbed..

Sorry, if I come off a little angry, but I take this hobby seriously(well, about as seriously as it could be taken), and I've had about enough of hearing about these two clowns.

[barrysloate]

I suspect the next step is this card will be consigned to one of those marginal country auctions, one with a "no returns, all sales are final" policies. And you just know someone will buy it, figuring if it is real he will get it cheap and make a killing on it. And then you will never hear from these two guys again. That will be the end of their days in the public eye.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I suspect the next step is this card will be consigned to one of those marginal country auctions, one with a "no returns, all sales are final" policies. And you just know someone will buy it, figuring if it is real he will get it cheap and make a killing on it. And then you will never hear from these two guys again. That will be the end of their days in the public eye.

Sounds like the business model of Coaches Corner -- get a BS authentication and then sell the item for a small percentage of what it would be worth if it was authentic to an unsuspecting wet-behind-the-ears novice who thinks he made a killing.

[Leon]

A few pics sent by board member John D....the original fake?

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by Leon

A few pics sent by board member John D....the original fake?

I'm taking offers on this card btw, you can't have the 1909 penny though, that's actually worth something

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by z28jd

I'm taking offers on this card btw, you can't have the 1909 penny though, that's actually worth something

John!!! I was just thinking about you today, as I posted that 't206 errors' article to my website - I was wondering why I gave you a by-line.

[ullmandds]

They've created their own reality distortion field.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

They've created their own reality distortion field.

LMFAO Thanks....

Sincerely, Clayton

[z28jd]

Did anyone notice the picture they used to help you learn about the t206 set? Looks like four of those cards are just as real t206's as the Wagner they are trying to sell.

For full disclosure, I hope it does sell for 10x what it is actually worth and the person who buys it, takes it famous places and takes pictures with it, Flat Honus

[Angyale]

Did anyone notice the examiners cert calls it an unrealesed version instead of an unreleased version.....

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I'm sorry but anyone that needs magnification to judge that cards legitimacy needs a new hobby.

Right! That's why counterfeit Rose and Mattingly cards made such a splash in the hobby, as well as 1984 Fleer Update Goodens and Pucketts back in the day, and countless others. That's why certain dealers were able to make a killing selling vintage cards that appeared NMT-MT or better, but had actually been run through a paper mill, thereby enlarged, and subsequently trimmed back down to what was technically the correct size, before the advent of TPG. These cards sold and sold well, because they looked right to a large number of people that believed they knew what was legit and what was not. That is, they looked right unless you knew where to look under 16X power or so! As a matter of ACTUAL FACT, the more objective information one has, the better off one is. To think otherwise reflects only naivete, prejudice or arrogance. In three and a half decades of analyzing the facts in the course of litigation law practice, I've learned quite well the value of having all of the facts available that might even conceivabley affect the conclusions to be drawn. He who chooses to proceed without them is often setting himself up for quite a nasty fall!

I'm sorry to be blunt and not sugar-coat it, but sometimes it's necessary to tell it like it is.

Here's hoping we all prefer to keep our minds open and stay objective,

Larry

[z28jd]

Larry, did you happen to notice the scans Leon posted for me? That is the same reprint these two guys have, it was made back in the 70's supposedly, as I was told by the dealer who gave it to me. I've had mine since 1991 and it was old looking then. I have 656 real t206's and my Wagner, which looks exactly like their Wagner, does not look like any of those real t206's. There is no doubt it is a fake card, the back looks real but the front has so many problems it's literally unreal.

Trust me when I say this, I dont like work that much, if I had a real Wagner I wouldn't have it anymore and I certainly wouldn't have a job. Well, I would still be a writer but I wouldn't be working at a restaurant too. These guys do not have anything except the same reprint I've had for 20 years.

If someone now wants to believe because an unknown grading company gave their word it's real, let me know, I'll sell mine for one dollar less than whatever 6 figure price you'd pay for the other one. Reminded me just now that back in the day an unknown grading company graded a Mathewson reprint as real and then came on the board trying to defend their position...we never heard from them again. I suspect the same thing will happen with this company

edit: I have a good memory from 9 years ago, proof that I've been around here waaay too long http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...son+grade+tech

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by z28jd

...
edit: I have a good memory from 9 years ago, proof that I've been around here waaay too long http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...son+grade+tech

Thanks for dredging that one up! The entire gang's there - even Julie jumped in for a cameo at the end.

If I remember correctly, wasn't that what Dan Mathewson got all upset about and disappeared over?

[Fred]

Leon,

I have just one question. Why isn't ACA Grading one of the links available for grading companies in the Vintage Links section? You've got PSA listed Hey all you PSA lovers, take it easy....

Could you imagine if some numnut one actually bought this card at auction.

[glynparson]

I dont need a loupe for any of those counterfeits either, but I guess that's because I know what I am doing. If you need a loupe to tell that card is fake you know nothing about T206's. if you have been around snce the 1980's and need a loupe to tell that is fake you have not learned very much about your hobby.

[irishdenny]

Is it just me... or... "Mr Bud Abbott & Costello Reincarnated!?!?"

Ahhh... Never mind...

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I dont need a loupe for any of those counterfeits either, but I guess that's because I know what I am doing. If you need a loupe to tell that card is fake you know nothing about T206's. if you have been around snce the 1980's and need a loupe to tell that is fake you have not learned very much about your hobby.

Much more closer to the truth is that you would be completely lost without one, as the counterfeit details of many of those cards are not at all clear to the naked eye. With regard to the trimmed cards, many of the most famous dealers prior to TPG in the early '90's carred a loupe with them to shows where they bought raw material in order to check the edges in just the manner I specified, because the cards would indeed measure correctly, and the trimming could not be detected with the human eye. Instead, magnification was required to properly examine the edges and to compare their much sharper appearance against those known to have been factory cuts.

It would clearly seem that you have voluntarily chosen to fall within the category of those befallen by prejudice and/or arrogance, prefering to decide the issue presented on the basis of who these people who own the card are and how different they are from you, when what is really important are the actual facts pertaining to the card itself. You can attempt to rebutt me all you like, but you can't kid yourself about what you really see deep inside you, and you won't change the actual facts about your behavior until you yourself change! Your hostility is only indicative of the truth of the above, which, when you've been brought face to face with it, brings about resentment on your part, and the nastiness comes through. I feel sorrow for your pent-up hatred, which causes you to behave in a manner which you most likely would not prefer, and tends quite strongly to make a complete fool out of you.

Best wishes on a successful metamorphis, becoming a person more willing to objectively consider various sources of actually relevant information, rather than jump to a conclusion based on all the wrong reasons. Remember, my initial post in this thread merely indicated I would like to have more objective information conderning the card itself, rather than people's reactions to the identity of the would-be seller. I did not take any position with regard to the card's validity at all, and most assuredly did not start the nasty comments, but as you have readily seen, am more than capable of defending my position against them.

Larry