The New York Times puts their two cents into the Jeter memorabilia story

[David Atkatz]

" ...a box of Derek Jeter-signed baseballs in the company warehouse."

To me, that says it all. My Mickey Mantle single-signed Cronin ball was signed for me outside the Stadium in 1966. It was never goods in a warehouse. My Ruth-signed red-and-blue stitched Barnard ball was signed for a little girl at Ruth's hotel in St. Louis, the day before the 1928 WS began. It was never goods in a warehouse. My Lou Gehrig-signed 5x7 of him with his arm around a young boy was signed for that boy during spring training 1929. It was never goods in a warehouse. I could go on, but I'm sure even T206Collector gets the point.

[David Atkatz]

Oh, and all of the above where given gratis by the poor put-upon athlete in question.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

" ...a box of Derek Jeter-signed baseballs in the company warehouse."

To me, that says it all. My Mickey Mantle single-signed Cronin ball was signed for me outside the Stadium in 1966. It was never goods in a warehouse. My Ruth-signed red-and-blue stitched Barnard ball was signed for a little girl at Ruth's hotel in St. Louis, the day before the 1928 WS began. It was never goods in a warehouse. My Lou Gehrig-signed 5x7 of him with his arm around a young boy was signed for that boy during spring training 1929. It was never goods in a warehouse. I could go on, but I'm sure even T206Collector gets the point.

I will admit that things like the "Steiner Warehouse" strips bare the veil of nostalgia and shows the naked face of what it is -- commerce.

That said, David, not everyone has the opportunity to meet Derek Jeter (your Mickey Mantle) outside the stadium. Or the means to acquire Ruth and Gehrig items. To today's 16 year old Yankee fan with no realistic chance of meeting his hero, Jeter, what is he to do? Simply abandon the desire to have a signed item, or go with the flow and send an order in to the Steiner Warehouse?

[David Atkatz]

If the athletes weren't such pigs-at-the-trough, the kid could do what kids have always (up 'till recently) done: write to the athlete who would (particularly in the off-season) be happy to sign. For free. And Brandon and his ilk would, perhaps, be driving a cab, or flogging schmatas in the garment district.

[packs]

What bothers me most about Steiner is his prices. All of his items are grossly over-priced. $599 for a Derek Jeter signed baseball is not a "market driven" price. It is the reflection of a man's compulsion to make as much money as he possibly can. For some people that works. For me it doesn't. I realize no one has to pay the price he's asking, but it still bothers me personally.

The argument that fans are driving up the prices of autographed memorabilia doesn't hold water for me. Prices were way way way down in the early 90s even at card shows. It was only after athletes decided they wanted more money and "should" be paid more for writing their name that prices started to go up, in my opinion. And I believe that is why old timers never saw a market for their signatures.

I was just reading a story on Yahoo about US Women's goalkeeper Hope Solo. She will most likely be turning down every endorement opportunity she's been offered in favor of leading a quiet life. Poor business decision or positive life choice? Which is more "valuable"?

[HRBAKER]

They have to price items that high to make sure there is no potential for someone to resell the item at an even higher price, thus preventing leakage.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by packs

What bothers me most about Steiner is his prices. All of his items are grossly over-priced. $599 for a Derek Jeter signed baseball is not a "market driven" price. It is the reflection of a man's compulsion to make as much money as he possibly can. For some people that works. For me it doesn't. I realize no one has to pay the price he's asking, but it still bothers me personally.

The argument that fans are driving up the prices of autographed memorabilia doesn't hold water for me. Prices were way way way down in the early 90s even at card shows. It was only after athletes decided they wanted more money and "should" be paid more for writing their name that prices started to go up, in my opinion. And I believe that is why old timers never saw a market for their signatures.

I was just reading a story on Yahoo about US Women's goalkeeper Hope Solo. She will most likely be turning down every endorement opportunity she's been offered in favor of leading a quiet life. Poor business decision or positive life choice? Which is more "valuable"?

Hey Packs,

Your comment about Steiner's prices is spot on.

BTW, I attended the National in Cleveland in 1997 and paid $50 to get Sandy Koufax's signature because it afforded me the opportunity to meet Koufax once again in person and have him personally sign a theme ball that I was working on at the time. I asked him to add an inscription and he said he was more than happy to do this, with no additional inscription fee. Sandy was, as always, a complete gentleman. Unfortunately, he has become somewhat of a recluse.

Now Steiner has got his hooks into Koufax and it now costs $500-$600 for a basic sig (no inscription) when he has a "private signing". This has eliminated the possibility of many fans ever meeting Sandy or, heaven help them, being able to afford to get his autograph.

Call this the "Steiner effect". I'm not a fan of Brandon Steiner, needless to say...

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Now Steiner has got his hooks into Koufax and it now costs $500-$600 for a basic sig (no inscription) when he has a "private signing". This has eliminated the possibility of many fans ever meeting Sandy or, heaven help them, being able to afford to get his autograph.

Call this the "Steiner effect". I'm not a fan of Brandon Steiner, needless to say...

This is EXACTLY my point. Sandy Koufax ain't doing card shows for $50 a pop.... And you want to blame Steiner? But when Jeter follows in Koufax's footsteps, you want to blame Jeter?

Which one is it? Stop thinking athletes have changed. Wake up and smell the 21st Century.

[David Atkatz]

Of course athletes have changed. Bloodsuckers like Steiner have shown them, nay, produced for them, a new "business model." Extreme greed. And all it took to make it work was folks like you--ones not only happy to pay, but, more than that, honored to pay.

"Thank you, sir; may I have another."

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

This is EXACTLY my point. Sandy Koufax ain't doing card shows for $50 a pop.... And you want to blame Steiner? But when Jeter follows in Koufax's footsteps, you want to blame Jeter?

Which one is it? Stop thinking athletes have changed. Wake up and smell the 21st Century.

FWIW, I do blame Steiner. I've gotta believe that Steiner waving $500 per signature private signing paydays under athletes' noses is the problem, not the cure for what the hobby needs. Are you kidding me??

Guys like him are killing the hobby for the average fan that doesn't have extremely deep pockets. Believe me, I can smell the stench of Steiner and the 21st century from across the country....

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

If the athletes weren't such pigs-at-the-trough, the kid could do what kids have always (up 'till recently) done: write to the athlete who would (particularly in the off-season) be happy to sign. For free. And Brandon and his ilk would, perhaps, be driving a cab, or flogging schmatas in the garment district.

Again, the kids started selling their stuff on ebay. Kids arent collecting cards anymore for fun. They do it for money, ever since the 1980s. Autographs are the same.

Let me draw it simply for you in outline format:

1. Koufax used to sign for free in the mail.
2. Many people started selling his autographs.
3. The value grew so much people started forging his signature.
4. Koufax started charging $50 for his autograph at shows
5. The value kept growing, and forgeries followed suit.
6. Steiner streamlined the process for the athletes, maximized the value to reduce leakage and put an end to forgeries.
7. Whining collectors started bitching that Koufax stopped signing freebies in the mail and blame Koufax and/or Steiner -- ignoring the fact that the rising price had everything to do with collector demand.

[David Atkatz]

You're absolutely wrong. Your model makes no sense. As long as Koufax is signing for free, there's no market for his sold signature. Sure, a few will sell, but the market is small. Only when demand--you remember demand; you must, since you're constantly lecturing about it--for $50 signatures rises, will people pay. And that demand rises only when the supply of free signatures dries up. The logical next step, of course, is to realize that if they'll pay $50, they'll pay $60. And if supply is held down--no leakage--they might even pay $600.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

You're absolutely wrong. Your model makes no sense. As long as Koufax is signing for free, there's no market for his sold signature. Sure, a few will sell, but the market is small. Only when demand--you remember demand; you must, since you're constantly lecturing about it--for $50 signatures rises, will people pay. And that demand rises only when the supply of free signatures dries up. The logical next step, of course, is to realize that if they'll pay $50, they'll pay $60. And if supply is held down--no leakage--they might even pay $600.

I'm wrong? Your answer is Koufax has to sign like Bob Feller? In fact, has a civic duty to sign like Feller?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

I'm wrong? Your answer is Koufax has to sign like Bob Feller? In fact, has a civic duty to sign like Feller?

Thanks for strengthening my point! There never was a market (shall we say "demand?) for $600 Feller signatures. Why? 'Cause he never stopped signing for nothing (or next to nothing.)