Anonymity vs Privacy on the Net54baseball

[asphaltman]

I don't like being required to have first and last name on every post. Heck if we have to have that then why do we have a members page with emails, ebay handles, websites, etc?

To me...if you've been here for years and are known...then you're known by the general masses...and that should be good enough.


If anything, I wish the member page would be updated...as so many new people here are posting that aren't on it, as well as quite a few on it that don't even come here anymore.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

If anything, I wish the member page would be updated...as so many new people here are posting that aren't on it, as well as quite a few on it that don't even come here anymore.

Dave - the 'Community' link at the top has a full current membership listing. Of course, it is dependent on the member supplying their contact info.

[asphaltman]

Originally Posted by Matt

Dave - the 'Community' link at the top has a full current membership listing. Of course, it is dependent on the member supplying their contact info.

I was talking more about this page Matt...which I guess was just plain replaced by the other one you pointed out.


http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/c...tagelinks.html

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by asphaltman

I don't like being required to have first and last name on every post. Heck if we have to have that then why do we have a members page with emails, ebay handles, websites, etc?

To me...if you've been here for years and are known...then you're known by the general masses...and that should be good enough.


If anything, I wish the member page would be updated...as so many new people here are posting that aren't on it, as well as quite a few on it that don't even come here anymore.

Agree with Dave, most everyone knows everybody. I see no real need....I think it could create more potential issues vs. correct or avoid potential issues.

Just my two cents.

John

Actually Leon you of all people should understand the no real need for last names. All it takes is someone with a silly axe to grind and a website to make your full name synonymous with whatever tripe they would like to spread. And for what or over what a disagreement of opinion or point of view on a baseball card board. You have our numbers and details if someone pulls something really illegal I think you can hand that over to the right people...

[Jaybird]

Member page makes sense. If the names are there, then anyone can check and find out the name (if you're a member, I assume). Then we don't have to police the internal threads.

I think it is the rare few that are stirring things up just to stir them up. If the member page has everyone's name and we are able to PM and email each other directly, that should provide the necessary accountability.

I can see how it would be a drag for a moderator to enforce the rule everyday when these discussions and disagreements are part of normal discourse.

Question is: how hard is it to update the member list?

[T206Collector]

If you want to treat it like a clubhouse, that's your prerogative -- just keep in mind that this forum is as open to the public as a fishbowl.

It is not at all surprising that the clubhouse members want to know who they're conversing with by full name. You've all exposed yourselves as real humans, with real emotions and feelings. I'm just a Matty Dark Cap Avatar and a real passion for T206 cards. If the price for doing that here is joining your clubhouse, well then I guess I'll just move on.

[alanu]

I would prefer to remain at least semi-private for security/privacy reasons and would especially not want to be on a "member list" of collectors, but then again I'm a little paranoid and don't even use my real name on facebook.

[sportscardpete]

Honestly, I really don't like having my name put out in public. If there was a way that only the people on the board could see my name (and not through public searches, ex Google) than I would have no issue putting my name in. Which is why I feel everyone should have their name in their public profile but not on individual posts. I think that is fair for everyone, and is probably something the general universe can agree on.

Also, Leon you are doing an awesome job. It must be hard keeping everyone happy and no decision is easy.


Thank you,

P*ter I****ce**i =)

[Rich Klein]

I think the real issue comes down to in what threads you make posts.

Making posts in threads about -- Net 54 Contest as to what an EBay item will sell for --- is fine -- I don't care if you post your name in that one. We had a nice thread on the post-war boards about 67 Topps Hi#'s -- on that one -- no names needed.

Making posts in threads such as the one we had a way way back about JP Cohen's background or something that looks askew in a Memory Lane auction (That was the 1st thought that came into mind -- no inference meant) -- then if JP, Daniel (Who I have known since the 1980's), etc want to know who made that post, they do have the right to do so. The cosignor of some of the cards in question later posted to his credit.

Regards
Rich

[Leon]

Well, it looks like everyone can sort of understand the situation. I am not sure there is a perfect solution. Here is an idea that might upset fewer folks than what is happening now...

How about when you get into a heated debate, or any kind of discussion with a board member, and they want to know who you are, then they can email me and I can tell them your name?? It isn't perfect but I doubt I would get more than a request or two every several days, maybe less...as most people do know each other. Once I tell someone I won't have to tell them again (for that member). I want this to be as open of a forum as possible while forcing people to take responsibility for what they say. (if it gets to that point in a discussion). I understand there will be some objections but at least it's a start. .thoughts?

ps...btw, this would mean you could only have your user id on the board, always.....

[Rich Klein]

Sounds reasonable ---- and remember -- that person must also post and maintain a valid email address. The person who is asking must be able to contact the poster in question -- no blocks or anything ---

You say something, you take responsibility.

Rich

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

If you want to treat it like a clubhouse, that's your prerogative -- just keep in mind that this forum is as open to the public as a fishbowl.

It is not at all surprising that the clubhouse members want to know who they're conversing with by full name. You've all exposed yourselves as real humans, with real emotions and feelings. I'm just a Matty Dark Cap Avatar and a real passion for T206 cards. If the price for doing that here is joining your clubhouse, well then I guess I'll just move on.

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

I couldn't agree more. Well typed.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

I agree with this as well. It drived me nuts that people try to sell something and just give an email. If I don't have contact with you how am I supposed to know your name. I believe currenctly the mods can see everyones name and I think that at a certain point a request for someone's name would be ok.

Lets say someone has to get to 100 or 200 posts before they can request contact infromation that might help as well and prevent a run of the mill searcher from getting any contact information.

Leon's idea seems like it is fine and I do think of this as somewhat of a community and enjoy talking cards with people in person as well.

I understand the security issue, but IMO if someone tracks you down with plans to steal your cards then it is more likely someone you know locally then someone you met on a chat board 5 states away. Just my opinion but I don't see typical crooks searching out card collections.

James G

[asphaltman]

For me it's not a matter of thinking everyone is going to come after my collection...just seems like after being around here for years you should have the right to be known by the majority of the board with your handle, or first name, or whatever....


And anyway, if some goofball wants to come after my collection they'll get to meet Mr. Smith & Wesson before they'd meet Mr. Cobb or Anson....

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

Just a couple of responses:

Requiring names may get rid of the bottom dwellers, so I get that, though only to a degree - who is to say what my real name is. You can call me "Paul" if you like.

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

I'd rather not have to worry about these paranoid concerns, or who will find me or look for me or whatever. And by keeping a low Internet profile, I don't have to.

So, again, if you'd like to take the small risk that posting your name with your valuables is going to get you robbed, or that your boss would fire you or not hire you, go for it, dude. But to require people who want to talk about baseball cards, of all things, to take any risk whatsoever is ridiculous.

[calvindog]

How about no names are listed but if one board member has a problem with another then names are divulged privately?

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Just a couple of responses:

Requiring names may get rid of the bottom dwellers, so I get that, though only to a degree - who is to say what my real name is. You can call me "Paul" if you like.

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

I'd rather not have to worry about these paranoid concerns, or who will find me or look for me or whatever. And by keeping a low Internet profile, I don't have to.

So, again, if you'd like to take the small risk that posting your name with your valuables is going to get you robbed, or that your boss would fire you or not hire you, go for it, dude. But to require people who want to talk about baseball cards, of all things, to take any risk whatsoever is ridiculous.

Probably not a bad idea to keep a low profile. Nowadays some dirtbag can pick your pocket via the internet from the comfort of his basement suite in Pyongyang or Bucharest. I'm just an old guy with dated expectations who appreciates the congeniality and manners of the bygone millenium and who is apparently pissing in the wind in the new one.

[Collect Equity]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

But I think there's a missed point among those who put their real names, and that is what your current and future employers may think about your hobby. The number of HR departments that care about employee - current and prospective - Internet activity is only growing. Now, this is a far cry from porn, obviously. But the cleaner my Internet profile, the better. My next employer might not really want to hire someone who spends working hours browsing the b/s/t listings here.

Another reason to avoid associating your name with your card collection is in case you run for public office some day. I can just imagine a news article about how Jonathan who is running for Mayor is out-of-touch with the common man's plight because he spent $20K a year on baseball cards last year alone.

(like when John McCain was asked about how many houses he had -- he's invested in rentals and someone else takes care of them so he didn't know. Boy did that make him look out of touch)

I too like the idea that when people get in disputes their full name AND email are disclosed to each other in an email to both from Leon so they can take it offline if they'd like.

-Jonathan

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Kawika

Don't really have a rebuttal for you, Paul. You are correct that our "clubhouse" is also a fishbowl and I fully appreciate the security concerns people might have. If someone ever steals my baseball card collection maybe I'll wish I had stayed anonymous. The internet is lousy with nameless bottom dwellers and their unkind and stupid commentaries. Just look at any blog. I stand against that. I was fashioned in older times, my word is who I am and I will put my name by it and take my chances.

!00% agree

[Kenny Cole]

Understanding that you need to be substantially less involved in personal quarrels, I will say this: If I am going to be shot at by someone for something I said, IMO, they need to be a real person with a real name. On the board. Accountable on the board, not in private emails, after you tell me who it is that's shooting at me. If I'm getting shot at in public, I want to respond in public. So when I send you the email about who is shooting at me, get the answer, and post that full name on the board, is that an infraction? If so, why?

I personally am not too satisfied with being attacked by some tool who doesn't even have the guts to post his or her real name due to alleged "privacy" issues that causes them to be anonymous while they're shooting at you. Being "private" is all well and good until you enter the fray. Then, IMO, you should forfeit that right. Understanding that was the problem which caused this post in the first place, the proposed solution doesn't fix it.

A screen name pariah, I figure Ty is much worse, and probably less trustworthy. Does it REALLY MATTER?

[steve B]

Board privacy is a complex issue. I'm on a few mailing lists/boards for bicycle collecting and/or repairing. I've also been on a few that are no longer running.

All the ones no longer running allowed complete anonymity. And they devolved into a fesival of very low name calling and coarse language. Even by my low standards. Once a lot of content got lost the collapse was quick as only the ones doing the stuff were left to abuse each other.

Most allow some anonymity, but not total, and usually there's no clear policy. The one that comes to mind is a mailing list for bulders or wannabe builders of custom bike frames. Some people are in the business, and are quite well known. Some are just starting and want to be known. The mostly anonymous ones are usually hobbyists. And usually everyone is ok with that. The exception lately was someone who wanted to be anonymous, but also wanted to split a $2000 parts order with one or more other people. How he planned on doing that without giving any info escapes me.

Another requires a lot of transparency, full name town and country on every post. That one has rarely had any full on arguments. (There was one guy who used to regularly post while either drunk or off his meds, but he's ok now)

But the money involved isn't as big as what goes on in cards. So there's less likelihood of theft. And it's closer to blue collar, so there's less sensitivity, and less chance of a lawsuit of any sort. (Except product liability, some new framebuilders are pushing the envelope a bit far in my opinion)

The challenge is how to allow some anonymity without giving the worst people a free hand to ruin things.
T206 collector has a point that we don't really have to actually know each other. And that there are security concerns.
But..... If a prospective employer won't hire me because I have a life outside work that includes baseball cards I'm not really interested in working for them.

I like the idea of potentially flagging threads as controversial, but it sounds like more work rather than less.
Pre approving people with good reason for keeping anonymous and maybe adding a logo of some sort? Although this just marks someone as maybe more interesting to the curious/nefarious.

I try to remember to add my name if it's a controversy. Like Kawika I feel that I am responsible for my comments. I also do first name last initial on most posts.

Another element that I think is lost with full anonymity is knowing whose opinion is being read. There are areas where I feel confident in my opinions. And areas where I don't have as much confidence. One of the fun things when I first came here was seeing some names I knew from the past. Guys that I knew had been around a long time and had a good deal of knowledge.
I also actually liked the overall atmosphere of the board. One of my welcomes was me mentioning that I had some blank back Southern league T206s. The very next response was I think literally "yeah right.." So I had to do scans. Being held to standards works well for me, probably a product of a backgroung in machinery/ manufacturing/engineering etc.

Steve Birmingham

[novakjr]

Honestly, I'm all for anonymity if a member chooses to remain anonymous, but I think it would be nice for us members who list our names to be hidden from non-members. Or maybe even institute a trial period/limited access, in which new members can't see names for at least 30/45 days, to avoid anymore SteaknChop type fiascos, where a new guy gets mad and just starts using names to look up personal info. Hell, the harassing calls were just the tip of the ice-burg, as far as what a person can do to you, just simply by knowing your name and having a grudge. As far as the current rules regarding names and heated discussion, I'm completely on board with keeping them the way they are.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Agree with Dave, most everyone knows everybody. I see no real need....I think it could create more potential issues vs. correct or avoid potential issues.

Just my two cents.

John

Actually Leon you of all people should understand the no real need for last names. All it takes is someone with a silly axe to grind and a website to make your full name synonymous with whatever tripe they would like to spread. And for what or over what a disagreement of opinion or point of view on a baseball card board. You have our numbers and details if someone pulls something really illegal I think you can hand that over to the right people...

That axe-grinder is now in jail as far as I know...or at least in a crapload of trouble that's probably going to put him there.

[chaddurbin]

same sentiment as "b.i.j.o.e.m".

[M's_Fan]

I understand everyone's concern about "taking responsibility" for comments, but I have serious concerns with the requiring members to disclose their names for the following reasons:

(1) Many collectors with high-end collections (I wish that included me) and even low-end collections do not want to post their personal information on the board which could be viewed by potential theives, and

(2) I have read that identity thieves mine personal data from forums to build a profile for identity theft.

You may disagree with this but these fears do exist and such a rule would deter a significant amount of people from participating on the board (including me).

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

That axe-grinder is now in jail as far as I know...or at least in a crapload of trouble that's probably going to put him there.

I have heard....rumors of that…

That is one of the reasons I was always just Wonka until recently Leon wanted my last name added which most everyone knew already...

In the end I will always stand beside what I type here. But I ended up on the axe grinders site because somebody forwarded my name and business email with my company info. Next thing you know my company is popping up on Google linked to a web rant page filled with anti-Semitic babble….luckily I work in the entertainment business where there are very few Jews so no big deal.

That’s why for the most part happy to be Wonka or John.

Dan & Leon so what is the deal now? Not that it matters now but for the new guys full name or no…give me the reader’s digest on this.

John

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Dan & Leon so what is the deal now? Not that it matters now but for the new guys full name or no…give me the reader’s digest on this.

John

So I/we can get out from under the gun of having to monitor the site 7x24, and be involved in way too many threads I/we don't want to be involved in, the rule will be changing. There will still be 0 "total" anonymity as the moderators will have every members contact info. That info will remain private unless someone asks for it who is involved in a discussion with the unknown (to the board) member. Hopefully that will satisfy almost everyone. I will probably put in a caveat that says if someone goes ballistic their name may still be made public, at the moderators discretion. That might help with folks that want to go off the deep end without fear of being known publicly. The goal is to keep privacy, when needed, but also to keep accountability. So the short answer is, you can take your name off your sig line if you want to, John. regards

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Leon

So I/we can get out from under the gun of having to monitor the site 7x24, and be involved in way too many threads I/we don't want to be involved in, the rule will be changing. There will still be 0 "total" anonymity as the moderators will have every members contact info. That info will remain private unless someone asks for it who is involved in a discussion with the unknown (to the board) member. Hopefully that will satisfy almost everyone. I will probably put in a caveat that says if someone goes ballistic their name may still be made public, at the moderators discretion. That might help with folks that want to go off the deep end without fear of being known publicly. The goal is to keep privacy, when needed, but also to keep accountability. So the short answer is, you can take your name off your sig line if you want to, John. regards

If our name and/or contact information is requested by someone and given to him or her, can we expect to be notified by a moderator?

Thanks.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

If our name and/or contact information is requested by someone and given to him or her, can we expect to be notified by a moderator?

Thanks.

Yes, I will be happy to let folks know when someone inquires about them. It's a two way street.