T206 green portrait Cobb centering....SURVEY....updated

[danmckee]

I own 4 green Cobbs, I have one on ebay which I think you people addressed here already.

To say Ted's survey has proved anything is ridiculous. You people have no clue how many huge collections of raw vintage cards are in old timers collections. I visited a gentleman who has 3 T206 sets less the biggies, a T205 set and a T207 set. He doesn't even collect cards, he is a memorabilia giant. There are 3 green's right there that you have no clue are centered or not.

If there are 300 or 500 green Cobbs out in the hobby, and Ted has survey'd 30, is that a good testing environment? Can you take the 30 and say the results cover the remaining hundreds that you didn't see? I say no. Is it possible? Of course Ted's survey may cover the majority but it is also very possible that it doesn't. If Ted survey'd half of them or 3/4s then ok, that is proof. But these little wannabe surveys here on this board are not proving anything with the population of any fairly common cards in the hobby.

Has Ted done a good job? Of course he has, he loves it and is passionate about it. But does his work prove anything? Be realistic folks.

It is neat to see the results Ted comes up with during these mini surveys but as far as proof positive, nah.

[FrankWakefield]

I would imagine, Dan, Wonka, Rob D, and Jim (where ever you are), that when you see my name beside this thread on the front page, you can predict what I've posted. That's what I did when I saw Rob and then Dan.

Ted didn't base his opinion on two and a half dozen cards seen here. He based it on 30 plus years of attentive collecting, which is longer than many here have been out of diapers. What you've done, Dan, is characterize what Ted said in a way so you can take a stab at it. Post #21 is Ted's, and it explains his experience in handling thousands of T206s. I'd think he's sold more T206's than half of the folks on this board have ever seen. Ted's thread does prove something, that most of those green Cobbs with a Piedmont 150 back are off center.

When you guys jump the old timers, you sometimes run them away for a while, or for good. The jumping adds nothing to the board. The departure of the guys that really know about cards and share that knowledge, that definitely subtracts from it. When a turd lands in a cesspool, it obviously isn't alone.

I don't completely agree with part of Ted's initial post, where he says if centering is important then avoid Piedmont 150 green Cobbs... I'd love to have a worn, off center green Cobb.

So PEACE, guys.

[danmckee]

Actually Frank, I gave Ted a very nice compliment that you have seemed to miss. That he does a good job and is passionate about his work.

I think you are mistaken that Ted has handled and sold thousands of T206's. Hundreds maybe but the Ted I remember at the Willow Grove shows and onward was a late 1940s guru. He knew the Bowman, Bond Bread, Bowman PCL issues inside and out. We would all crawl to him for late 40s expertise.

Ted always had a few T206s at the shows but usually just a junk box of them which he likes to sell at $10 to $20 each. I have picked through that box for many years, it is like treasure hunting.

I also do not appreciate you telling me my thinking for my post, to stab at him. You are wrong once again sir. I was merely trying to point out that a test group of a small amount of anything is not necessarily a good indication of the entire group.

If my post chases anyone away, then shame on them.

If you will notice, I am not on here any more but maybe you feel I have nothing to bring to the board.

I have been chased away by the lack of collecting the way I know it from the 1970s and 80s and the new theme the hobby has taken.

So, I will run away again, enjoy your board full of self proclaimed experts.

[tedzan]

Thanks for the compliment "ole buddy". But, your memory of Willow Grove (and Ft Washington) days is either failing or very "selective".

In the 1980's I mainly collected Tobacco cards. I didn't start selling them till the mid-1990's. Barry Sloate will attest to this, as I sold him
my 521 card (includes Magie) T206 set. This was the 1st set I put together. Also, I sold him my complete T205 and T207 sets.

At that same time at Ft Washington, I sold Mike Wheat my E90-1 set (120 cards complete with an Ex Joe Jackson).

I broke up one of two 1933 Goudey sets (239 cards) that I put together. Bill McAvoy bought the Babe Ruth's. The 2nd set I sold to Alan Rosen.
Mr Mint also bought my 1934 Goudey set and my 2nd 1941 Play Ball set.

In 2001, I started on my 2nd T206 set and completed this 520-card set by 2004. I broke up this T206 set in 2005 and started an all-PIEDMONT set.
Dave Czuba bought about 1/2 the cards from my 2nd set.

I completed a 518-card all PIEDMONT T206 set in 2006. Then, I started an all SOVEREIGN T206 set, which I completed when I acquired the 408th
card (red Cobb with a SOVEREIGN 460 back).

Am I making you "dizzy" Dan ?
There's more....I started and near completed an all SWEET CAPORAL Factory #30 set of 467 cards. Wagner and Plank were the only cards missing
from this one.

Dan....let's do the math together .... 521 + 520 + 518 + 408 + 467 = 2434 T206 cards.
And, that does not include all my duplicates over the years.

Sorry to correct you guy, but this statement of yours is sheer horse-crap fiction .... please try to get the facts straight........
" I think you are mistaken that Ted has handled and sold thousands of T206's. Hundreds maybe "

Dan .... I really find it very disappointing that you have become part of this "discredit Ted" campaign that has been instigated by Jim Rivera.


Oh....and, I forgot to mention the large group of George C. Miller cards you bought from me in 1996....that was quite a hoot.

I have some fine memories of you and your Dad going back to the Willow Grove days. Tis a shame that its all come down to this vendetta that you
guys are conjuring up.


TED Z

[Mikehealer]

I hate to get off topic here, but Joe that is one gorgeous Cobb.

[wonkaticket]

Frank I find it ironic that you would lead off your post with commentary on people making wrong assumptions.

I also based my questioning of Ted’s arbitrary number of 95% based on my collecting experience does my collecting experience have any less merit?

I have been collecting T206’s since I was about 12 or so going a little over 24+ years now.

I too have had my fair share of these cards experienced large finds and large buys. I have never felt the need to hang my trophy list here in order to chase folks away from having an opinion.

Regardless of having thousands or just a dozen there is no reason somebody can’t present a valid argument or theory, or question those of a more experienced collector. That very reasoning is assumptive in nature which seems to bother you. But as with most folks it only bothers them when it’s being done to them not the other way around.

This whole I’ve done this and you haven’t is childish and counterproductive.



Sadly Ted plays this card with folks who have serious knowledge or the very folks Ted gets his knowledge from in many cases. What Ted fails to mention in a lot of these posts is where this info he posts comes from. It comes from some of the very community and members that he now seems to have issue with.

This thread/topic didn’t devolve due anyone other than Ted, and this topic was not started to answer any hobby question or gain insight.



It was started to prove Ted right in some twisted way from the questioning he got via me on the other post.

Here are the facts Ted made a snap comment that all Piedmont 150 green Cobb’s are OC of which he can’t prove definitively. When I asked where did you come up with that number, and unless you’ve seen them all how can you issue such a statement. Instead of simply stating you know what Wonka you have a point I would say based on my experience I would think a large number of them are OC and saying a definitive 95% are OC is a bit snap in judgment.

But Ted doesn’t want to do that if you look back at the thread where this started I made a post saying Cobb green is a tough card to find centered. It was Ted that had to come along with the one up if you will. In fact a one up that was riddled with wrong information. Of which mistake number one (Cobb Green Hindu) was chalked up to a test for us little folks and the other is now trying to be proved via a 30+ card survey with cards within the survey not even being counted. LOL

The whole thing is laughable. This is not the first time folks this has happened with Ted for the readers who think I’m just picking on poor Ted or have been told there is some offline conspiracy against him.

He did this with an AUTH Plank where he busted onto this board stating that the card was no good due to having a wrong factory, which he was wrong about.

He did this with his Polar Bear list in which he left off Demmitt & O’Hara but when he was corrected by Barry Sloate, his response was…you guessed it he was testing us again.



The examples go on and on…with Ted.

This whole Cobb topic I have had a range of emotion on. I went from confusion “why would Ted say that”. Too frustration “why is he missing or dodging my simple point”.

Finally I just feel sad for Ted almost embarrassed I disagree with him and call him out as he would to me or anyone else and it’s chalked up to an elaborate conspiracy against him. Against him how? What motive would we have….dethrone him as the resident self proclaimed T206 expert on Net 54…no offense to anybody or me but that’s like being the tallest midget.



I’m sure he would like to paint me as a bad guy but the sad thing is Ted knows me. We’ve shared hours of phone calls, lunches, road trips heck I even hung around to help him pack up after one of the card shows in PA.

For Ted…..

Ted I’m sure you’re reading this. I find it odd you are so resolute in your quest to be right on every tid bit you post on here that you would act like you do towards the very folks who have been more than fair to you. There is no need to lie to us, don’t think you have want to tell everyone you’ve been honest go ahead at least perhaps the folks who don’t know any better will buy it.

But deep down inside you know you have been dishonest to me & others even very recently in a very elaborate and wrong way. BTW did Jim Rivera make you lie to several folks on here at length and make up a ridiculous story recently in private to both Dan and I? You know exactly what I’m talking about but I'm not going to air that here.



Ted there is no need to discredit you with many folks on here you’ve done that yourself already with your past and recent actions, and only someone with something to hide would be so paranoid as to turn a disagreement on a topic into a covert campaign against them.

Cheers,

John

[FrankWakefield]

'childish'... childish would be those images, and the use of them. I'm done.

[danmckee]

Yea Ted I must agree, now that I think about it, handling thousands of T206s is no real feat. I just looked around the house and with my set and the left overs of 3 large buys, I think I have over 2000 here now. So yes, I would agree with Frank that you have easily handled thousands.

I don't remember you being known for T cards but that may be on me as you say. You may want to re-read my post, I am not discrediting you, I just don't think a test group of 1% of any item gives proof positive results of the majority of a large group. Not just cards, anything, I was trying to general.

Am I one of the sheep here that believes everything you state? No, but I think you do a good job and try hard. I just sometimes think you go to extremes to make your theories look more correct but no harm.

I will look forward to seeing you at the Oaks, stop by and say hello or I will stop over if you like.

And stop bringing up the George C Millers, I think they were all in poor condition and you charged me mint prices .

Take care Ted
dan

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by danmckee

If there are 300 or 500 green Cobbs out in the hobby, and Ted has survey'd 30, is that a good testing environment? Can you take the 30 and say the results cover the remaining hundreds that you didn't see? I say no.

I guess it depends on the definition of good testing environment. Statistics are used all the time using small sample sizes to extrapolate to the actual population (polling estimates, Nielsen ratings, etc.). Statistically, given a universe of 500 and a sample size of 30 with a percentage of 87, you can be reasonably confident (95%) that the margin of error is +/- 12%. In other words, it is 95% probable that the actual percentage in the population is between 75% and 99%.

Plug in any numbers you want in the "Find Confidence Interval" calculator here: http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm

[wonkaticket]

Erick,

Mathematically speaking...math sort of goes out the window when in this very thread 12 examples are posted and only 6 are counted...I'm no Stephen Hawking but I would guess that tweaks the results a bit....

John

[Tsaiko]

Here's another P150> The lipstick on the forehead variation - j/k.

Looking at the back scans of the two that are graded (that are in the box), it at least appears that one has a tall top border, but I will get to those, eventually, and post scans.