Uncut Bowman Sheets?

[nearmint]

Thanks, Ted, that much I understand. What I'm trying to determine is if there is a relationship between the numbers of cards printed in the three groups. From your earlier explanation, it sounded like sometimes the first sheet included the multiple-of-9 cards, and sometimes it included the multiple-of-nine-plus-1 cards instead. So there were two versions of the first sheet. Is that correct?

If that's correct, then I think if you add the number of multiple-of-9 cards printed to the number of multiple-of-9-plus-1 cards printed, that equals the number of multiple-of-9-plus-2 cards printed. (Which equals the number of multiple-of-9-plus-3 cards, etc.)

(If anyone understands me and can state it more clearly, please do!)

The reason I'm asking is that I've created a bunch of "virtual" uncut sheets for other sets (here's an example), and I'd like to create them for the 1952 Bowman Large set, too. I'd also like to explain exactly how short-printed the short prints are, in relationship to the others.

Thanks again.

[tedzan]

1st....your "virtual uncut sheets" of the 1948 Bowman FB set is exact. In the early 1980's, I had the three uncut sheets
and I wrote this SCD article regarding this set.








2nd....Back then, SCD also featured an article I wrote on the 1952 Bowman LARGE FB set. When I find it, I'll post it here.
In the early 1980's I did a REAL survey of these LARGE cards (sampling approx. 1200 cards). If I recall correctly, the ratio
of the .... DIVISIBLE by 9 .... cards to the .... DIVISIBLE by 9 + 1 .... is 1 / 5.

Furthermore, the ratio of .... DIVISIBLE by 9 + 1 .... to all the other 112 cards in this set is 1 / 2.5

What this survey tells us is that Bowman RANDOMLY shifted their 36-card sheets in order to print all the cards. However,
they did NOT do it in an orderly fashion in order to equalize the number of cards printed. The printing of these cards was
done by shift workers, and there was no attempt to coordinate the process.

One final note..my understanding of Bowman's printing process (done by Zabel Brothers, Philadelphia) was that the width
of the cardboard accomodated two adjacent 36-card sheets. If this is confusing, I will provide a diagram in a forthcoming
post here.

I hope I have answered your questions ?

But, if it not, then I'll try again.

Regards,

TED Z

[nearmint]

Thanks, Ted, that 1948 Bowman article is great. I didn't know that the cards were released in series, and I didn't notice that only a few teams were represented per sheet. When I get a chance, I'll edit my web page and add a link to your article.

I'm looking forward to reading your 1952 Bowman Large article. I think I understand the truncating, I'm just not sure at what point the truncating took place. Was there a partial column printed on each sheet that got trimmed off, or was that column not printed in the first place? I don't know anything about printing, so I can't envision what the printers did to "shift" the sheet one way or the other.

That's all--at least 'til I read your article!

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by tedzan

One final note..my understanding of Bowman's printing process (done by Zabel Brothers, Philadelphia) was that the width
of the cardboard accomodated two adjacent 36-card sheets.

That makes a lot of sense. They printed Topps cards in similar fashion, i.e. two half sheets at once on a large master sheet. I have to suspect Zabel became Topps' printer after the Bowman acquisition but the transition took a few years I think.

ted, have you ever found much on Zabel Brothers? I spoke to Irv Lerner about them briefly at the National but there is very little on the web about the company.

[tedzan]

Here is what I know about Zabel Bros. of Philadelphia. This printing firm had been around since the late 19th Century. In 1981,
I had a great conversation with George and Howard Moll of the Moll Advertising Agency in Abington, PA. The artists at the Moll
Agency were contracted by the BOWMAN GUM Co., starting in 1938, to do all the sports and non-sports cards sets (Play Ball,
Bowman, War Gum, Wild West, etc.....and, their famous Horrors of War).

Howard told me that the 1948 and 1949 BB, FB, Basketball, Movie Stars, etc. were printed by a lesser known printer in the Philly
area. Then they switched printers to Zabel Bros. in the Fall of '49. BOWMAN's first gum card production with Zabel was their very
colorful and artistic Wild West cards. I collected these as a kid and I remember getting them in the Winter of '49 thru the Spring
of 1950. At that time, the 1950 BOWMAN BB cards were also available at our corner stores in Hillside, NJ. I recollect that us kids
were very excited to open up those Red-White-Blue packs and find these colorful looking BB cards. Many of which were the same
pictures from the 1949 set with artistic backgrounds. Zabel Bros. made a significant difference in the quality of the BOWMAN cards
from 1949 to 1955.

When TOPPS bought out BOWMAN in 1956, it is my understanding that the contract with Zabel Bros. continued with TOPPS.

Dave, I hope this story provides some insight to the question you asked.


TED Z

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Here is what I know about Zabel Bros. of Philadelphia. This printing firm had been around since the late 19th Century. In 1981,
I had a great conversation with George and Howard Moll of the Moll Advertising Agency in Abington, PA. The artists at the Moll
Agency were contracted by the BOWMAN GUM Co., starting in 1938, to do all the sports and non-sports cards sets (Play Ball,
Bowman, War Gum, Wild West, etc.....and, their famous Horrors of War).

Howard told me that the 1948 and 1949 BB, FB, Basketball, Movie Stars, etc. were printed by a lesser known printer in the Philly
area. Then they switched printers to Zabel Bros. in the Fall of '49. BOWMAN's first gum card production with Zabel was their very
colorful and artistic Wild West cards. I collected these as a kid and I remember getting them in the Winter of '49 thru the Spring
of 1950. At that time, the 1950 BOWMAN BB cards were also available at our corner stores in Hillside, NJ. I recollect that us kids
were very excited to open up those Red-White-Blue packs and find these colorful looking BB cards. Many of which were the same
pictures from the 1949 set with artistic backgrounds. Zabel Bros. made a significant difference in the quality of the BOWMAN cards
from 1949 to 1955.

When TOPPS bought out BOWMAN in 1956, it is my understanding that the contract with Zabel Bros. continued with TOPPS.

Dave, I hope this story provides some insight to the question you asked.


TED Z

Thanks Ted-I do know the 1956 Topps Presidents set was printed in the same dimensions as the large Bowman cards (a hair different in size than the Topps Giant Size cards) and I have long suspected but have been unable to confirm that the standard sized cards that started with Elvis in 1956 were configured to fit the Bowman sheets. However, I have done some research that indicates Topps was still using Lord Baltimore Printing in Baltimore through the end of the 50's, so there may have been some sets printed in Balto and some in Philly for 4-5 years.

I am fairly certain Lord Baltimore printed all of the Giant Sized Topps cards from 1952 through 1954 and likley into 1955 or '56 (except for the Presidents set); I suspect the Red and Blue Backs plus the Team and AS cards in '51 were printed in Philly but probably not by Zabel. I wonder if they were done by the other Philly firm you refer to. Still trying to determine who did the Topps printing in 1949-50 as well.

Any idea what happened to Zabel Bros? They disappear in the mid 90's I think. Not sure if they were bought out or not.

[tedzan]

My good friend and long-time collector, Jack, may be able to provide some answers to your questions.

I will try to contact Jack some time today.


Regards,

TED Z

[Volod]

Hey Ted: I have that SCD article you wrote in January, 1986 on the 1952 Bowman football issue. Would you like me to post it? Don't think there are any legal concerns for me in doing so.