Spring cleaning comes early to the Plank household...

[barrysloate]

Hi John- hope you are doing well.

You are going under the assumption that PSA noted the cleaning but chose to ignore it. I say they missed it completely.

[wonkaticket]

Barry doing well, thanks for asking and you?

I had thought of that also but trying to give these guys the benefit of doubt and not try to bash etc.

But if it was missed that in itself is even more scary. I mean I understand a common card with hundreds of examples going in and out a day missing the clean job. But a card of this magnitude and in the information age we live in with online archives for tons of public transactions. Then take a card like this with a tell tale birth mark that's clear as bell and you miss this seems really sad.

These guys make a decent living how hard could it be to check the net on recent sales of any card in the say 20k+ range that comes across your desk.

I took one look and said that's the card from REA last year...heck and it’s a hobby for me not a business.

Cheers,

John

[barrysloate]

Hi John- when I'm not breaking ice or digging up snow, I'm doing fine.

I had the same thought you did: for a high profile card such as a T206 Plank, there should be some kind of database where a grading company can trace the past transactions of a particular card. But it would be difficult to keep up, and so many transactions are private. And where does one draw the line? Sure, you would like to think that every Wagner and Plank could be traced back. But what about a T206 Lajoie? How about a 1933 Goudey Hornsby? As I said, it would be a really tough thing to do.

What the grading companies should do is spend more time grading expensive cards. I'm not completely sure the removal of this stain would have been detectable under high magnification, but for a card worth well into five figures, if I'm a grader I want to do my due diligence. Obviously, I can't say the grader was negligent, but it's possible he missed something that could have been detected.

And yes, a cleaning should have lowered the grade from an SGC 30 to a PSA Altered...if it was detected.

[iggyman]

I think PSA sometimes forgets to put the "CLEANED" qualifier. I will cut them some slack since my understanding is that the chemicals used are organic and contain 99% fish oil.

I can't quite tell, but what the heck is that a scar(?).....running vertically down Plank's PSA graded left cheek??? The sad part is, that looking at both pics and assuming the quality of the scans are more or less the same, I would prefer the one in the SGC holder .

Lovely Day...

[Leon]

If I were currently buying that card in the 2.5 holder I would at least like to know it's been cleaned. For me, and this is personal to everyone, if ONLY water was used to clean it, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. IF chemicals were used I would probably have an issue as who knows what will happen to it over time? And IF chemicals were used I could imagine the paper not holding up too well over time. I wonder if it passes the "smell test"? Nice catch John.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Leon

If I were currently buying that card in the 2.5 holder I would at least like to know it's been cleaned. For me, and this is personal to everyone, if ONLY water was used to clean it, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. IF chemicals were used I would probably have an issue as who knows what will happen to it over time? And IF chemicals were used I could imagine the paper not holding up too well over time. I wonder if it passes the "smell test"? Nice catch John.

I don't believe that stain could be removed with water only. In fact, it looks to me like a water stain, and those can be pretty tough to completely remove. There were certainly some chemicals used on that one.

Let me also add that if you look at the cleaned area closely, it looks a little rough, as if it were abraded. Assuming I can see this on a holdered card viewing a scan, wouldn't you think a grader holding a raw card in his hand should notice this too?

[wonkaticket]

To be fair to Paragon auctions whoever they may be. Leon the card is listed as being cleaned in the auction.

I just saw the card and knew it was one of the 4 from REA last year. I'm with you on chemicals over time and that's a good question.

Anyone know of any methods used back in the day for cleaning cards that now years later have caused more problems than they fixed?

Cheers,

John

[teetwoohsix]

This is a shame. All this for a half of a grade higher? Even the back of the card looks too white, it looks like it's lost it's beautiful natural aging

It should be graded "A". Altered.

Great eye Wonka !!

Sincerely, Clayton

[T206Collector]

If you collect pre-war cards with the expectation that they have never been soaked in water or cleaned with hard-to-trace chemicals, then the good news is that you'll never notice the really good cleanings and you can keep deluding yourself.

[FrankWakefield]

Maybe it wasn't so much a stain, maybe it was remnants of cola or some water soluble fluid. Maybe the card was merely soaked. And maybe, just maybe, the card slabber folks aren't as adept at detecting a soaked card... or maybe they don't discount mere soaking at all.

If chemicals were used, then I'd like to think that those grader guys would be all over that. I don't think chemicals should be used, and if they are that should definitely be disclosed as the card changes hands. But soaking a T206 in water isn't that big of a deal, it isn't a deal at all. Many of them have been soaked, many of them were once pasted into scrapbooks.

[terjung]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

To be fair to Paragon auctions whoever they may be. Leon the card is listed as being cleaned in the auction.

Twice, in fact.

"...Just to mention this card has been cleaned. Despite the aforementioned condition specifications, the card presents very well and the near-perfect centering and bold color create tremendous eye-appeal. Just for detail this card has been cleaned...."

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by terjung

Twice, in fact.

"...Just to mention this card has been cleaned. Despite the aforementioned condition specifications, the card presents very well and the near-perfect centering and bold color create tremendous eye-appeal. Just for detail this card has been cleaned...."

Kudos to them for mentioning it's been cleaned, but cleaned with what?