Most Overrated Pre-War Player is...

[vintagecpa]

Take a look at Johnny Evers stats. He certainly didn't make it in the hall with his bat.

[rp12367]

From what I've seen on stats and my grandfathers stories, I think Evers is overrated. He (grandpa) use to say Tinkers-Evers-Chance was his claim to the hall of fame...

[Bosox Blair]

Evers and Chance are completely deserving Hall-of-Famers. As long as there are people out there trotting out the old nugget that a poem got them enshrined, they are actually under-rated.

Cheers,
Blair

[HercDriver]

Tinker is Rizzuto...either you are a stat guy, then they aren't in, or you're a "value to team" guy and they are. I'll take Tinker and trade Bobby Wallace for Ron Santo...

Take Care,
Geno

[Peter_Spaeth]

George Sisler.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

George Sisler.

Sisler? .340 lifetime average and two .400 + years? Please, share your rationale.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Disproportionately low on base percentage and slugging average. Bill James agrees, by the way, calling him among the most overrated players of all time.

[familytoad]

This might not be too popular among some here, but Hal Chase is imo way over rated and by all accounts one of the worst humans to play baseball. I avoid his cards the way he avoided sportsmanship. I cant see the fascination with him nor the Black Sox players, but to each his own.
Statistically speaking, i find it hard to see how many HOFers were included, most drastically Highpockets Kelly, first base, comes to mind.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by familytoad

This might not be too popular among some here, but Hal Chase is imo way over rated and by all accounts one of the worst humans to play baseball. I avoid his cards the way he avoided sportsmanship. I cant see the fascination with him nor the Black Sox players, but to each his own.
Statistically speaking, i find it hard to see how many HOFers were included, most drastically Highpockets Kelly, first base, comes to mind.

Brian, he was universally described by the players of his era to be the best first baseman of the era -- and some said of all time. Yes, his numbers were not huge but many HOFers back then, in the dead ball era, did not have huge numbers. And of course he was a disgusting human being but that's what fascinates me: the duality of man, etc., evident in the Hal Chase story. Keep in mind, also, that Chase received more votes for the HOF in the first voting in 1936 than 18 future HOFers as well as Joe Jackson. He was that good.

[MooseWithFleas]

I like Bill James, but I really hope for his sake that he said this early in his sabremetrics career. Making an argument based against one statistic is something that is frowned upon by all sabremetricians so it is rather hypocritical of him to do so unless he had some other supporting evidence.

Furthermore, if he's using one statistic, OBP is inferior to wOBA. Hopefully he said this in the 80's or 90's.

Of the names you listed, here is how they rank according to career wOBA.

Kiner .428
McGwire .415
Sisler .396
Schmidt .395
McGriff .389
Clark .375
Torgeson .374
Tenace .371
Valo .371
Davis .365

wOBA is a much more all encompassing statistic in terms of offense. Defense, baserunning, and "intangibles" makes things a bit murkier. But when it comes to the stick, Sisler is not overrated. Unless you're saying he is a better first basemen then Pujols, Gehrig, Thomas, or a few other 1b's

[Peter_Spaeth]

FWIW James said it in the 2003 edition of his historical baseball abstract -- fairly deep into his career -- his explanations aren't always complete so I doubt it is based on that one metric alone that just happens to be the one he mentioned.