1960 Pirates v. Yanks Game 7 MLB Network 8pm

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Regarding your......
" Exactly...I had never heard about this until Ted's post so I don't know how prevalent the feeling is that Coates should have gotten him
(I see that part of Ted's post is straight from wikipedia), and I wonder if now that everyone has actually seen the play that history will
make a correction, and Yogi will make an apology. "

I first heard this story from Clete Boyer, who was there on the field playing 3rd base (and in the 8th inning SS) in that 7th game.

Clete was at my table at the Ft. Washington show back in the late 1990's sorting thru my Bowman BB cards. I first didn't realize who he was,
but he was very friendly and we were talking Baseball for about 40 minutes. The subject of Yankees World Series games came up and that is
when he told me this (and I'm paraphrasing it)...."at Yankees gatherings, as friendly as Yogi is, he will not speak with Jim Coates. Yogi holds a
grudge towards Coates, since he blames Coates for the loss of that 7th game by not covering 1st base to get the throw from Bill Skowron. "

During our conversation, Clete gave me his address in order to send him more Bowman cards, and that is when I first realized who he was. Clete
was an autograph guest at the Philly show that day.

Furthermore, when I recently visited Yogi Berra's Museum (in Montclair, NJ), I repeated this story to the two gentlemen working at the museum
and they confirmed Yogi's feelings toward Coates.


Look, Yogi was in Left Field that day....did he get a good view of Coates' lapse in getting to 1st base ?
I certainly don't know. However, Boyer was close by in the infield at SS when this occurred. He, too, faults Coates for hesitating to get to 1st
base in time.

Hey guys, I trust Clete's take on this scenario.....he had a bird's-eye view of this event.


TED Z

Yogi usually agreed with Casey Stengel, but this was one of the times when Yogi was critical of Casey. First, he thought Casey should have started Whitey
Ford in game 7.
Secondly, given the situation in the 8th inning, Yogi questioned Casey's decision to replace Bobby Shantz with Jim Coates. Yogi thought a better choice of
relievers would have been Louis Arroyo, or even Ryan Duren.

Many years later at an Old Timer's event (1972), Casey admitted to Ryan Duren...."You know the biggest mistake I made in the 1960 World Series ?
I should have brought you in, in the 8th inning"......instead of Jim Coates.


Mike (mr2686)

I think, given some of the above posted feelings, Yogi was just upset with Casey's decision in that situation, and found blame with Coates. My understanding
is that Yogi took this loss very hard.

Yes, it will be very interesting to see if Yogi and Coates will talk to each other at the 1961 reunion in January ?


TED Z

[barrysloate]

Bob Costas asked Bobby Richardson why Casey didn't start Ford three times, or why he didn't bring Ford into the 7th game in relief, and you could see that it rankles Richardson to this day. It sounds like the players lost faith in the 70 year old Stengel's ability to manage the team smartly.

And Richardson also mentioned that Coates first went after the ball, then when he saw he couldn't reach it, sprinted to first. It certainly looked like he was hustling, but Clemente simply beat him to the bag.

[nolemmings]

Coates did get a raw deal. He comes in with two on and no out, retires the first two without incident, then gives up what was not much more than a swinging bunt to one of the NL's best hitters. And yes, he was hustling all the way on that play but just couldn't get to the bag in time, assuming Skowron would have fed him perfectly anyway. Then it looks like he had Smith struck out, but the ump ruled that he checked his swing. That would have been worth a replay and discussion with Costas, and I wonder how that would have been called these days. Smith, by the way, seemed to just luck into one--he looked awful that whole at bat until that pitch.

A few observations.

It was a mistake to not start Whitey in the opener, no doubt. I wonder how much he would have left in game 7 though, having just twirled 9 innings the day before. Again, one lucky swing by Smith was the difference--could have come off of anybody, IMO. Putting in the wild Ryne Duren there and face a potential wild pitch would not have been wise, even though he threw hard the bats were finding the ball that day--no Ks.

As mentioned, Shantz had no business batting with two in scoring position in the top of the eighth. A pinch hit from Elston Howard or Long there could (maybe would) have broken the Bucs.

I really wonder why Casey came out to talk to Coates after the first pitch foul to Clemente. He was very animated, but what was his point? BTW, in today's game don't you think they would walk Clemente to set up a force at any base and pitch to the back-up catcher?

On Mantle's single in the 9th, Clemente booted the ball. Dale Long reached third and of course his pinch runner then scored the tying run on that infield smash to Nelson. He doesn't score if he was not on third. No error for Clemente, and Mel's play by play seems to suggest that Long was rounding second on his way to third, but a) I'm not sure he tries it if the ball is not booted--we can't see Long running and the situation didn't necessarily call for him trying to take that base; and b) a clean fielding play and throw by one of the stronger arms in the NL would have nailed the slow-footed Long, IMO. I guess all's well that end's well if you're a Pirates fan, but I wonder if that play would have been more widely discussed had the Bombers gone on to win.

[barrysloate]

Todd- I agree with you that Hal Smith looked awful on that at bat, and I remember wondering after he took a wild swing how he could have possibly homered. It was ironic of course that he hit what was assumed would be one of the most famous home runs of all time, yet it was nearly forgotten some fifteen minutes or so later.

[tedzan]

Berra said as much, regarding Stengel......that he must be losing that brilliant managing touch that got the Yankees 9
A.L. Championships (including 7 World Championships) prior to 1960.

Perhaps, Yogi wished he was behind the plate for that 7th game (he caught 3 of the games, while Ellie Howard caught
4 of them), for he would persuaded Casey to bring in Arroyo, or Duren, or even Ford.

In two prior 7-game World Series, Stengel had Allie Reynolds (1952) and Bob Turley (1958) pitch in 3 games.


TED Z

[barrysloate]

Ted- Stengel was considered old at 70, and that partly or mostly explains why he was fired.

One of my favorite Stengel stories, relating to his dotage, was that during his tenure as Mets manager he was known to call on Blanchard to pinch hit. He then had to be reminded by one of his coaches that Blanchard didn't play for the Mets.

[Robextend]

It seems that Blanchard caught Game 7 because Howard was hurt.

[GoldenAge50s]

I tried to watch for all the little things:

3 times on balls hit to right field Roberto fumbled it!

Foul balls were rolled back to the dugout, not tossed into the stands.

Batters stayed in or just stepped slightly out of the batters box once they came to the plate.

Managers went to the mound, not pitching coaches.

Hal Smith struck out!---He went MORE than half way around on that checked swing on the high pitch, and looked completely fooled at the plate on every pitch.

Mickey Mantle made the hairs on my neck stand up every time they even showed him--on deck, in center, or at the plate! He even looked fairly healthy as the limping was minimal---and---The guy could HIT!