T205 Dolly Gray with stats

[nodgrass]

As I mentioned above, I tend to agree that POP reports have their drawbacks when using as a sole source to analyze the scarcity of a particular card. Especially now that they have become tainted with constant resubmissions. However, I feel it is a valuable tool or at the very least a starting point. When I collected T206's heavily and PSA first started posting the POP report, I used it as a valuable reference to put me ahead of the curve in identifying tough cards and commons. Most often it was right on and I benefited later when everybody else was paying big money for the same cards. When Joe Doyle NY became an expensive "common", I already had two PSA 4's and a PSA 5 w/ Sovereign back and paid less than $40 for all of them.

I will argue the skewed data from resubmissions point as it applies directly to this particular case. I would think this would affect the more expensive and scarce cards the most. However, the Dolly Gray with stats still has less than 40 examples graded. How can that be explained?

Lastly, to touch on the point of POP records being inaccurate. I would think the only substitute would be painstakingly watching and charting the sale of particular cards as they appear on the market over a long period of time. How would this be any more accurate? Reselling the same card, raw cards purchased and later graded, graded cards purchased and broken out, crossovers, resubmissions. How can any card be accurately tracked in this method?

I really don't mean to turn this into a POP report debate and I apologize for getting off-track. I really would like to hear about real world experiences and/or data.... theories as to why the Gray or other cards in T205 are rare or not rare.

Is the Gray with stats only available with certain backs? I don't have access to it at this moment to confirm my memory is correct, but I beleive in Lipset's encylcopedia he states that the Gray w/stats is only available in Sovereign back. The examples I have seen have a Piedmont back.

[Tcards-Please]

Marc,

I've been collecting this set since 2007 and I'm more than halfway complete on a low grade master set. Most of what I've learned regarding this set has come from Joshua, Shawn, the Engles (Matt/Turner). They are very knowledgeable when it comes to T205's. The Gray with stats comes with both Sovereign and Piedmont backs. I have both examples and seem to come up for auction quite often. Although the Gray is a tough card to find, I've found that there are 8 other cards that I would say are harder to find:

1. Hoblitzell "no stats" - only found with Hassan.
2. Wilhelm "suffered" - found with Hassan & Cycle
3. Mathewson - Cycle
4. Wilhelm "suffe ed" - found with Piedmont
5. Wallace "one line of 1910"
6. Moran "stray line"
7. Addie Joss
8. Hoblitzell "name correct no cin"

Just my opinion from what I've seen from my journey. What I found difficult to find may have been easier for someone else depending on when they started collecting.

r/
Frank

[nodgrass]

Frank, Thanks very much for that useful information. It seems as though there is a ton unknown about T205. With T206, much has been pieced together with regards to the printing of the various series, the backs, and how it all ties together to make certain cards more scarce. I am hoping this will also happen to the same degree with T205's.... or maybe it has and I missed it?

Marc the secrets are with the T205 collectors. We just dont share the info as much as the larger collected groups. This keeps the eye off of us and allows us to buy what little exist cheaper in comparision to the T206's for relativley cheap. Just contact the T205 guys Like Matt and Turner Engle, Josh, MR.Toad, maybe me (I know alot but not enough yet. I wanna be the Ted Z of T205's Need to invest about 40 more yrs into research though)

As far as the Gray w/stats I have seen more lately in the last 6 months than the last couple yrs.

[Wite3]

I don't publicize it too much but those that have been around the board for awhile know that I have painstakingly tracked sales of T205s and have tracked particular cards themselves for some time of the tougher t205s...gray w/ stats included. I have scans and/or notes and fairly good data on true sales reports. Heck, I have tracked a certain Joss for eleven different sales (starting in 1998 for $35 and recently sold for $432 and it has been graded three times, twice by PSA and once by GAI)...I have lots of data and I know I promised to put out my semi-annual report but things have been really busy this year. I promise to get it together eventually.

Joshua

[Matt E.]

Thanks for the kind words.
Turner and I usally try to pick up the cards listed in the links below when we see them at a show.... either to hoard or flip.

Really no science here, just recognize the variations, short prints and hard to find players and you are home free. There will always be a market for
the "tough" cards in this very beautiful set. You can find some of these cards, but in a higher grade is next to impossible.

I would like to say Bill Cornell knows his T205's quite well and has been very helpful to us.


SHORT PRINTS
http://imageevent.com/babybingbaseball/shortprints



HARD TO FIND
http://imageevent.com/babybingbaseba...rof6.penguin_s



Here is one that did not make either list but is quite difficult to find in a higher grade.



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[Mikehealer]

Hi Matt
I noticed that Shean(Cubs) was not on either of your lists, is he not that tough or just no scan up.
Thanks
Mike