Mastro Auctions Mastro's Stuff?

[calvindog]

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

[Matthew H]

I wonder if worries of shill bidding will affect the prices realized...

[Leon]

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

You said it in your question, Peter. I can seperate the fact that someone did something wrong to lots of people (hypothetically) and I was one of them OR the fact I was targeted? Yeah, to me I can distinguish between them. I am not saying anyone else should, but I do. regards

ps....and after some more thought on the whole subject I do reserve the right to change my mind at any time in the future I could see me being pissed about being ripped off (hypothetically of course)..

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's an interesting question, but I guess I'm with Yossarian on this one.

[oldjudge]

I would like to echo Bruce's comments. I have known Bill for a long time and found him to be a fun guy and a caring person. He has always been one of my favorite people in the hobby and I only wish him and his lovely family well.

[batsballsbases]

I to have know Bill for many years and I to like Leon reserve the right to let the justice system try and finish what they started. If you ask me do I believe something was going on absolutely! But do I also believe that many of the other auction houses are just as guilty of this pratice absolutely! It is very hard to know if you were ever "pushed up" in price without someone from the inside with that personal knowledge coming forward. For now as we know the bottom line is that MOST of the great items that we all want will be coming from some auction house. Private finds are very few in this day and age of the computer. Having just won 10 lots in the Legendary auction ,my feeling was that I paid a fair price for what I wanted. Bottom line for me is I set a personal limit for what the item is worth with the buyers premium and that it. If the item goes beyond that well good luck to the new owner. I had beat this subject to death over the years and it drove me crazy! Now I collect what I need and want with a price limit,this way I dont have to put the gun to my head every time I won an item and ask myself "WAS I JUST SHILLED"

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well of course you are entitled, I think it's just hard to understand why (hypothetically of course) being the target of a broader crime would be more palatable than being the target of a more focused one?

I had my home loan through Countrywide and some knucklehead stole all of Countrywide's customers social security numbers...I was mad at Countrywide for this happening, but I'd be a lot madder if the knucklehead had only targeted me because then it would be personal.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I had my home loan through Countrywide and some knucklehead stole all of Countrywide's customers social security numbers...I was mad at Countrywide for this happening, but I'd be a lot madder if the knucklehead had only targeted me because then it would be personal.

Except Countrywide didn't rip you off, a person did. And that person wasn't your good old friend. In fact he didn't know you at all.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Except Countrywide didn't rip you off, a person did. And that person wasn't your good old friend. In fact he didn't know you at all.

And you don't know if Bill Mastro shilled anything.

Yet.

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by Leon

I am certainly not advocating my view onto others, only giving my opinion. I didn't say it was a good defense either, of course it isn't. I didn't say it was anything except my opinion. I understand it's not a popular one either. That's ok. At least you know where I stand on it, right or wrong. It's the way I feel about it. Hopefully, I am at least entitled to my opinion? regards

Wrong. And uncharacteristically illogical.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

Wrong. And uncharacteristically illogical.

Yes, I am sorry if I offended anyone with the way I feel. Illogical?

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by Leon

Yes, I am sorry if I offended anyone with the way I feel. Illogical?

Of course you can choose to be friends with someone no matter what wrongs they've done to you. Nobody should be offended by that. But it kind of sounded like you were trying to justify it (even if you didn't need to) by saying that he ripped everyone off...not just you. That attempt at justification is what I thought was illogical.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

Of course you can choose to be friends with someone no matter what wrongs they've done to you. Nobody should be offended by that. But it kind of sounded like you were trying to justify it (even if you didn't need to) by saying that he ripped everyone off...not just you. That attempt at justification is what I thought was illogical.

That justification would be crazy. There is no justifying shill bidding, if it happened. Personally, I don't know for sure that it did. I have my suspicions but I will leave them at that and let the justice system take care of it.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

Thanks for the laugh, Jeff. It's been a long day...

If it was my client with all the 'stuff' swirling around his former business and former business partners I'd probably advise him to have a true third party sell it all rather than anyone with connections to my former business, just so there is no appearance of impropriety. Not saying anything will be wrong, just that as this thread shows the selection of auctioneers perhaps needlessly raises questions that might be better left unasked.

And I have to ask: does anyone think Mastro will have trouble getting paid on his consignments?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

[Leon]

BTW, I am not defending anyone if they did something wrong. If they comitted a crime then they should pay the same penalty as anyone else. It's not that difficult to comprehend, really. I have the ability to see the difference between a legal issue and friendship though, and prefer to see it that way. If others prefer to not like someone because of something they did to them, even if it wasn't targeted, I see that point too. I am multi-tasking in that respect. best regards

[sago]

I hope Bill got a good deal on the commission.

I can't wait to see the descriptions. Is it going to be vintage Bigelow, or more the Don West approach?

I'd speculate that this was worked out over 3 years ago that when the time came, Doug would get the collection.

Anything but that would have been a large slap in the face, and potentially disastrous for Legendary. Afterall, why would anyone consign there if the former owner, that left on good terms wouldn't? (former owner, who left on good terms? I should write their press release)

[Orioles1954]

Good grief. Collecting baseball cards is a fun hobby and I enjoy make my living in them. However, at the end of the day it's just that....a nice diversion. If we understand that everything we own is on temporarily loan to us, we won't need to get emotionally attached and ascribe silly emotions (IMHO) such as "sad" to parting with them.

[barrysloate]

You can't generalize whether it's a sad event if someone sells his collection. If you're about to foreclose on your house and you have to sell your collection to save it, it very well may be sad. But if you are just tired of collecting and don't get the excitement from it you once did, then selling it is just the next step in your life. Just about everybody sells his stuff at some point, for any number of reasons.

[HRBAKER]

That was what I meant. I can understand when Leon says he would be sad to sell his collection but I found it odd that others mentioned their "sadness" at Bill selling his. Life moves on.

[calvindog]

I think it's always a bit sad when a collector sells his collection. Especially if he's doing so in order to remain one step ahead of the posse.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by calvindog

In fairness, I've often used the argument at a sentencing for clients convicted of fraud that they didn't target anyone individually, just everyone who crossed their paths or invested with them, whether it be friends, family or perfect strangers. I've found that such an argument has really resonated with judges who recognize this as a mitigating factor.

Kind of like clients who are convicted of murdering their parents asking for mercy because they are orphans.

[autograf]

I think it's funny that some people, unnamed, take the hardest line possible against Mastro/Mastronet/Allen/Legendary, yet still bid in their auctions. Hopefully none of those are on this thread.

I don't really have any feelings whatsoever about Bill Mastro and his collection. I'm neither sad nor glad he's selling. More stuff in the marketplace I guess but I don't know him personally although those who apparently do feel he's a decent enough guy.

We've debated this crap ad nauseum (sp?) here and didn't solve anything then and haven't solved anything here in this thread. The bottom line, for now, is all these people are walking around, running the same type of business they have for years. So....until the rubber meets the road, it's all speculation.

Articles by O'Keefe and gyrations on a message board don't put people in jail. Judges & Juries do......

[Jewish-collector]

That's what this message board is for. Just to vent. Nothing gets solved on here. It's sort of like Rosh Hashanah. No new prayers are said. Same ones every year.

L'Shanah Tova to those who observe Rosh Hashanah.