Who is the greatest BB player you ever SAW?

[glchen]

(1) Bonds
(2) Pujols
(3) Pedro Martinez (at his peak)

Barry was a juicer, but the problem is that if you grew up in the last 20 years or so, pretty much every good player could be suspected of juicing. I know Thomas, Griffey, Jeter are probably not, but you never know. The entire era is tainted.

[sflayank]

since 1963 when i started watching these were the best in their prime years
koufax marichal gibson palmer seaver were the best pitchers
best reliever gossage best 1 inning "saver" mariano
mays clemente aaron in the outfield
brooks ozzie morgan and mattingly around the infield
bench behind the plate
if you put this team on the field for the best 5 years of each ones career its hard to picture them ever losing a game

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill James rates Mantle the 6th best player ever, despite those "low" RBIs. One reason his totals were relatively low, aside from injuries keeping down his games played, was the incredible number of walks he drew.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Maybe the point was made, but Ryan did not win a Cy Young.

[D. Bergin]

Steroid allegations aside. Strictly from a practical standpoint it's hard to argue against Barry Bonds.

His On Base %'s are nearly Ruthian, and in the modern game unheard of.

I don't think he ever saw a decent pitch to hit the last 5-7 years of his career, and still put up the ridiculous stats he did.

Only guy I ever saw intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

Not to mention the stolen bases and the Golden Gloves from the first half of his career.

[oldjudge]

Peter-The idea for a three or four hitter is to drive in runs. Taking your point about walks I looked at a few power hitters to see their ratio of RBIs to ABs. These are the results:

Ruth-.263
Williams-.239
DiMaggio-.225
Pujols-,215
Bonds-.203
Mantle-.186

If not for his injuries he might have been an all time great, maybe the greatest ever, but injuries are part of the game. Because of his knees he was not a base stealiing threat and had to be replaced in the outfield for defensive purposes late in games. Additionally, he finished his career with a sub .300 average (even if he skipped his last year his average would have been barely over .300). Also, he batted in one of the best lineups of his time which provided many more RBI opportunities than available to a normal three or four batter.

[Writehooks]

Catfish Hunter in his last two seasons with the A's. Absolute master of control.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter-The idea for a three or four hitter is to drive in runs. Taking your point about walks I looked at a few power hitters to see their ratio of RBIs to ABs. These are the results:

Ruth-.263
Williams-.239
DiMaggio-.225
Pujols-,215
Bonds-.203
Mantle-.186

If not for his injuries he might have been an all time great, maybe the greatest ever, but injuries are part of the game. Because of his knees he was not a base stealiing threat and had to be replaced in the outfield for defensive purposes late in games. Additionally, he finished his career with a sub .300 average (even if he skipped his last year his average would have been barely over .300). Also, he batted in one of the best lineups of his time which provided many more RBI opportunities than available to a normal three or four batter.

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

[Doug]

Assuming the question means "saw in person" I'd have to say Ken Griffey Jr even though he seemed to get hurt nonstop (and steadily decline in production) after he got here.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Steroid allegations aside. Strictly from a practical standpoint it's hard to argue against Barry Bonds.

His On Base %'s are nearly Ruthian, and in the modern game unheard of.

I don't think he ever saw a decent pitch to hit the last 5-7 years of his career, and still put up the ridiculous stats he did.

Only guy I ever saw intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

Not to mention the stolen bases and the Golden Gloves from the first half of his career.

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

Sadly, Bonds was on his way to a HOF career without steroids.

Sosa def wasn't.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

Well, the question you posed was "Who is the greatest BB player you ever saw?"

If you phrased it differently I may have answered differently.

I have yet to see any player put the fear into pitchers he did...........steroids or not.