Who is the greatest BB player you ever SAW?

[D. Bergin]

Steroid allegations aside. Strictly from a practical standpoint it's hard to argue against Barry Bonds.

His On Base %'s are nearly Ruthian, and in the modern game unheard of.

I don't think he ever saw a decent pitch to hit the last 5-7 years of his career, and still put up the ridiculous stats he did.

Only guy I ever saw intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

Not to mention the stolen bases and the Golden Gloves from the first half of his career.

[oldjudge]

Peter-The idea for a three or four hitter is to drive in runs. Taking your point about walks I looked at a few power hitters to see their ratio of RBIs to ABs. These are the results:

Ruth-.263
Williams-.239
DiMaggio-.225
Pujols-,215
Bonds-.203
Mantle-.186

If not for his injuries he might have been an all time great, maybe the greatest ever, but injuries are part of the game. Because of his knees he was not a base stealiing threat and had to be replaced in the outfield for defensive purposes late in games. Additionally, he finished his career with a sub .300 average (even if he skipped his last year his average would have been barely over .300). Also, he batted in one of the best lineups of his time which provided many more RBI opportunities than available to a normal three or four batter.

[Writehooks]

Catfish Hunter in his last two seasons with the A's. Absolute master of control.

[old-baseball]

To me it has to come down to Hank Aaron. Take away every single one of his 755 home runs and what do you have? Answer - 3,016 hits. Still enough to get you into the HOF.

I'm surprised that no one ever makes a case for Rod Carew. The guy was an absolute hitting machine. Fifteen straight years with an average over .300 and seven AL batting titles in a ten year period.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter-The idea for a three or four hitter is to drive in runs. Taking your point about walks I looked at a few power hitters to see their ratio of RBIs to ABs. These are the results:

Ruth-.263
Williams-.239
DiMaggio-.225
Pujols-,215
Bonds-.203
Mantle-.186

If not for his injuries he might have been an all time great, maybe the greatest ever, but injuries are part of the game. Because of his knees he was not a base stealiing threat and had to be replaced in the outfield for defensive purposes late in games. Additionally, he finished his career with a sub .300 average (even if he skipped his last year his average would have been barely over .300). Also, he batted in one of the best lineups of his time which provided many more RBI opportunities than available to a normal three or four batter.

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

Valid point. Other than a few years when Mantle has Maris batting behind him, he had no protection in the lineup like others have had. Also if you subtract out Ruth (didn't see), Bonds (steroids), DiMaggio and Williams (never saw in person), that leaves only Pujols ahead of him. I will still take Mickey.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

I was going to respond w/a similar post. I would add Billy Martin, Ruben Amaro and Horace Clarke to the "illustrious" list of hitters that set the table for Mantle. It's a wonder that he had as many 100 RBI seasons as he did. Furthermore during the course of his career Mantle himself occasionally batted first or second which further cut into his RBI totals.

[MacDice]

Ken Griffey Jr and Albert Pujols

[Doug]

Assuming the question means "saw in person" I'd have to say Ken Griffey Jr even though he seemed to get hurt nonstop (and steadily decline in production) after he got here.

[mdschulze]

Since I've only been to a handful of games... all Astros... I enjoyed watching Craig Biggio. Scrappy little guy with a big heart and a heavy bat.

[brickyardkennedy]

"Say Hey" Willie. And this is the opinion of a lifelong Brooklyn/LA Dodger fan.

[chris6net]

Pitcher-hands down George Thomas Seaver
Hitter-Henry Aaron
Most dominant for one season would have to be a tie
Ron Guidry in 1977 and Dwight Gooden in 1985. CN

[toppcat]

I agree: Tom Seaver. I was fortunate to have seen him pitch many times at Shea in the 70's. The best hitter I have seen is still playing: Albert Pujols.

[49leaf]

Bar none the most dominating player i have ever seen is Jose Canseco. Ask any player who was in the league from 87-90 and they will agree. He was a one man wrecking crew , the players had never seen anyone who could hit run and propel his team to win. Do I agree with the roid use, well they were all on it the last 23 years and Jose was the best.

[vintagehofrookies]

Originally Posted by 49leaf

Bar none the most dominating player i have ever seen is Jose Canseco. Ask any player who was in the league from 87-90 and they will agree. He was a one man wrecking crew , the players had never seen anyone who could hit run and propel his team to win. Do I agree with the roid use, well they were all on it the last 23 years and Jose was the best.

I 100% agree and couldn't have said it better! Along with Canseco, Vladimir Guerrero was the best player I have ever seen.

[tedzan]

I saw Joe DiMaggio play (at Yankee Stadium and on TV) from 1947 - 1951. He was still tremendous
near the end of his career.





TED Z

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Steroid allegations aside. Strictly from a practical standpoint it's hard to argue against Barry Bonds.

His On Base %'s are nearly Ruthian, and in the modern game unheard of.

I don't think he ever saw a decent pitch to hit the last 5-7 years of his career, and still put up the ridiculous stats he did.

Only guy I ever saw intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

Not to mention the stolen bases and the Golden Gloves from the first half of his career.

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

Sadly, Bonds was on his way to a HOF career without steroids.

Sosa def wasn't.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

Well, the question you posed was "Who is the greatest BB player you ever saw?"

If you phrased it differently I may have answered differently.

I have yet to see any player put the fear into pitchers he did...........steroids or not.

[albrshbr]

Always loved Tony Gwynn, always put the ball in play

Bonds was just a monster, even pre-steroids

Randy Johnson could dominate a game like no other pitcher I've ever seen

[Touch'EmAll]

The all-time leader in "lowest opponent batting average": #1 Nolan Ryan with .203, then #2 Koufax with .205

Basically, Nolan Ryan was the most difficult pitcher of all time to get a hit against.

Koufax had the advantage of a raised pitching mound - big help. Nolan Ryan came along after they lowered the pitching mound to make it easier for hitters.

How many no-hitters would Ryan have if he played with a higher mound like Koufax? Maybe 10, 11 or more?

The stupid ass Cy Young voters had a bone to pick with Ryan. Case in point: 1973 Ryan broke Koufax' single season K record with 383, had not one, but 2 no-hitters, was around 20 wins for the lowly Angels. And they gave the Cy Young to Palmer. Makes me sick to my stomach. As a kid I was mortified by the voters decision - as an adult, still am mortified. Could you imagine a pitcher with those season credentials not winning the Cy Young.

Yes, there is sometimes corruption in baseball. Yes, there are media darlings, aka Palmer.

Plain & Simple - Nolan Ryan had the best stuff of any pitcher, ever.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Plain & Simple - Nolan Ryan had the best stuff of any pitcher, ever.

FWIW Bill James ranks Ryan 24th among pitchers.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

FWIW Bill James ranks Ryan 24th among pitchers.

I'm thinking that Bill James must have never seen Ryan pitch in person, especially in the '70's.

[dabigyankeeman]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

I'm thinking that Bill James must have never seen Ryan pitch in person, especially in the '70's.

Yes, I saw Ryan pitch one his 200+ career 10 or more strikeout games in person, the guy was an animal, just awesome.