Anyone here done business with Chris Long Management?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Since you admit to being a crooked seller, would you mind telling us your Ebay ID? Edited to add: I don't really think for a second that you are a crooked seller. I just think you haven't thought this through completely.

You would agree that the buyer is not being screwed here, right? And that the only entity that loses in this transaction is ebay, right?

If anything, that might make someone a crooked user of ebay, but it doesn't make them a crooked seller. I hardly think it's my business as a buyer to assess whether the seller is improperly working around ebay's ever-changing rules and escalating fees.

Unless you own stock in ebay or are otherwise dependent upon the health of ebay for your hobby or business, I do not fully appreciate the perspective that defends ebay's rules and rights to its fees.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

You would agree that the buyer is not being screwed here, right? And that the only entity that loses in this transaction is ebay, right?

If anything, that might make someone a crooked user of ebay, but it doesn't make them a crooked seller. I hardly think it's my business as a buyer to assess whether the seller is improperly working around ebay's ever-changing rules and escalating fees.

Unless you own stock in ebay or are otherwise dependent upon the health of ebay for your hobby or business, I do not fully appreciate the perspective that defends ebay's rules and rights to its fees.

Cheating is cheating in my book. Doesn't matter to me if it's a person or a company being cheated.

And, it really doesn't matter if you "appreciate the perspective" or not. If you use their system, you have agreed to abide by their rules. If you don't like them, then use another conduit for sales.

It could not be any clearer to me.

It's funny, Paul, for most issues in life (politics, the economy, religion, etc.) I have noticed that most people have been sucked into a "left or right," "black or white," vortex, and I always tend to see things as very middle of the road and/or gray.

This isn't one of those issues.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

For most issues in life . . . I have noticed that most people have been sucked into a "left or right," "black or white," vortex, and I always tend to see things as very middle of the road and/or gray. This isn't one of those issues.

Obviously. I would say that I understand the general concept of adhering to the rules you agree to when you sign a contract or play a game. I just don't think that what the seller has done here makes him crooked, at least not in the eyes of the buyer.

In any event, I do not understand the rule that ebay prohibits the deferral of fees from the buyer to the seller, and yet allows sellers to set their own flat shipping and handling fees. To me, that is where the gray is. The ambiguity is built into their rules. To me, if you are going to charge me a $5.00 fee for selling an item, I should be allowed to consider some or all of that a "handling" fee. Ebay is no worse off financially, the buyer understands the conditions of the sale up front before bidding. It is a rule without a purpose, that cannot be policed.

In short, to me, it is a stupid rule. And if there is anything I feel pretty strongly about, it is adhering to rules that serve no purpose and only harm me when enforced. But if "adhere to all rules" is your dogma, to each his own.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

But if "adhere to all rules" is your dogma, to each his own.

I, sometimes, drive faster than the posted limit.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

I, sometimes, drive faster than the posted limit.

Cheater....

[steve B]

It's not defering the fees from the seller to the buyer, it's circumventing them almost entirely. With a .01 price and high shipping fee Ebay recieves very little in the way of fees, the buyer as always pays none. Ebay has made a rule that doing that isn't allowed. (I think technically it might be a theft of services but a small one.)

What gives them the right to make this rule is that they provide
The servers the site runs on.
The expensive computer people to run those servers.
The ads promoting the site(Also not cheap)
All of which makes a nice venue that because it was first and at one time the best of its kind.
And that provides lots of customers.

And all that is worth something. To expect to be given free access to an advertising venue that's been built up to a very successful level is pretty unfair. I'm not big fan of their fees and rules, but it Is their site and therefore their rules.

Steve B

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Cheater....

I know. I know. But I'm better now that I have two teenage drivers. Too many questions that were too hard to answer.

The problem I have with an issue like this is, how do you know where to draw the line? If it's OK to cheat Ebay because you don't like their rules, is it OK to cheat State and Local governments that expect sales tax? Then, is it OK to cheat the IRS by not reporting any profits? If it's not OK to cheat those you sell to, is it OK to cheat those you buy from (suppliers, vendors, grading companies, other sellers)?

I fine definitive lines only in two places. It's not OK to cheat anyone, or it's OK to cheat them all.

As I say, with two kids in the house, I have to say the only answer is the first choice.

[T206Collector]

We all draw our lines. I do not seek to deprive ebay of its hard-earned fees. But, if you ask me what my shipping fee is, I'll tell you bubble mailer+postage+pain-in-the-ass fees (including, but not limited to time and costs associated with buying the bubble envelope at Staples and making my way to a post office and paper packing slip and printer ink, and some reasonable portion of the ebay/paypal fees).

If ebay wants to collect $5 from me as a seller, I see nothing wrong in an up front deferral of some or all of those fees to the buyer.

I make no represetations one way or the other regarding a penny auction with an $800 shipping charge for an $800 card. That's between seller and ebay. The buyer should be indifferent.