Anyone here done business with Chris Long Management?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by mdschulze

I'll be the "Lost Soul" on this one... call me a crooked snake in the grass but if I have an item for sale that's worth about $10, I want to pocket as much as I can towards the actual price without feeling sore in my lower region the next morning. I have no problem with being charged a flat-rate insertion fee by Ebay... it's the Final Value fee that I find insulting.

Ebay buyers are looking for a deal, as am I when I make a bid. Say for instance you are selling a $10 DVD. You know it's worth $10, the buyer knows it's worth $10 so you list it for $10 and it doesn't sell because the seller has to tack on $3 for shipping. So you relist it for $7 w/$3 shipping. Now it sells for $7.01 (+ $3 shipping) because it's the same price as one can buy it from the local Best Buy. The seller is now out $3, plus Ebay fees, plus a little extra for delivery confirmation, plus PayPal fees. Now the item you knew was worth $10 is now worth about $5.50... give or take. It's a bad deal for the seller and the same deal the buyer would get at Best Buy. If I have the option to use a little Vasoline and reverse shipping costs with the listing price... I'll do it until Ebay snuffs me out! Call me crooked!

It really doesn't matter what you feel, in your head or your groin. When you opened an Ebay account, you agreed to abide by their rules and regulations. Period.

Clearly, shifting the revenue dollars from the "Sales" column (where you pay a % to Ebay) to the "Shipping" column (where you pay no % to Ebay), is an attempt to cheat Ebay out out their fees. There is no other way to look at it. Any honest person would see it that way. Ebay will see it that way. A judge or jury would see it that way.

Coming on a public message board and admitting that you go out of your way to cheat someone (in this case, Ebay) out of what's due them is very telling. Your exact words were: "The seller saves several bucks and Ebay loses a few." Unless Ebay was a party to this agreement to "lose a few bucks," you are stealing from them.

Since you admit to being a crooked seller, would you mind telling us your Ebay ID?


Edited to add: I don't really think for a second that you are a crooked seller. I just think you haven't thought this through completely.

[mdschulze]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

It really doesn't matter what you feel, in your head or your groin. When you opened an Ebay account, you agreed to abide by their rules and regulations. Period.

Clearly, shifting the revenue dollars from the "Sales" column (where you pay a % to Ebay) to the "Shipping" column (where you pay no % to Ebay), is an attempt to cheat Ebay out out their fees. There is no other way to look at it. Any honest person would see it that way. Ebay will see it that way. A judge or jury would see it that way.

Coming on a public message board and admitting that you go out of your way to cheat someone (in this case, Ebay) out of what's due them is very telling. Your exact words were: "The seller saves several bucks and Ebay loses a few." Unless Ebay was a party to this agreement to "lose a few bucks," you are stealing from them.

Since you admit to being a crooked seller, would you mind telling us your Ebay ID?


Edited to add: I don't really think for a second that you are a crooked seller. I just think you haven't thought this through completely.

I hear what you are saying. I've actually had potential buyers ask why shipping was high and I answered the question and posted it (just like on this forum) for everyone to see... including Ebay.

My Ebay ID is mds0319. If Ebay chooses to shut me down... Oh well! It's not like I make a living from selling crap out of my attic.... (I'll run out eventually)! Hell, if Ebay wants... they can come over and take the rest of the crap out and keep it as a replacement value for the fees they were shorted on by my sales.... it must be up to at least $4.00 now!!

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Since you admit to being a crooked seller, would you mind telling us your Ebay ID? Edited to add: I don't really think for a second that you are a crooked seller. I just think you haven't thought this through completely.

You would agree that the buyer is not being screwed here, right? And that the only entity that loses in this transaction is ebay, right?

If anything, that might make someone a crooked user of ebay, but it doesn't make them a crooked seller. I hardly think it's my business as a buyer to assess whether the seller is improperly working around ebay's ever-changing rules and escalating fees.

Unless you own stock in ebay or are otherwise dependent upon the health of ebay for your hobby or business, I do not fully appreciate the perspective that defends ebay's rules and rights to its fees.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

You would agree that the buyer is not being screwed here, right? And that the only entity that loses in this transaction is ebay, right?

If anything, that might make someone a crooked user of ebay, but it doesn't make them a crooked seller. I hardly think it's my business as a buyer to assess whether the seller is improperly working around ebay's ever-changing rules and escalating fees.

Unless you own stock in ebay or are otherwise dependent upon the health of ebay for your hobby or business, I do not fully appreciate the perspective that defends ebay's rules and rights to its fees.

Cheating is cheating in my book. Doesn't matter to me if it's a person or a company being cheated.

And, it really doesn't matter if you "appreciate the perspective" or not. If you use their system, you have agreed to abide by their rules. If you don't like them, then use another conduit for sales.

It could not be any clearer to me.

It's funny, Paul, for most issues in life (politics, the economy, religion, etc.) I have noticed that most people have been sucked into a "left or right," "black or white," vortex, and I always tend to see things as very middle of the road and/or gray.

This isn't one of those issues.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

For most issues in life . . . I have noticed that most people have been sucked into a "left or right," "black or white," vortex, and I always tend to see things as very middle of the road and/or gray. This isn't one of those issues.

Obviously. I would say that I understand the general concept of adhering to the rules you agree to when you sign a contract or play a game. I just don't think that what the seller has done here makes him crooked, at least not in the eyes of the buyer.

In any event, I do not understand the rule that ebay prohibits the deferral of fees from the buyer to the seller, and yet allows sellers to set their own flat shipping and handling fees. To me, that is where the gray is. The ambiguity is built into their rules. To me, if you are going to charge me a $5.00 fee for selling an item, I should be allowed to consider some or all of that a "handling" fee. Ebay is no worse off financially, the buyer understands the conditions of the sale up front before bidding. It is a rule without a purpose, that cannot be policed.

In short, to me, it is a stupid rule. And if there is anything I feel pretty strongly about, it is adhering to rules that serve no purpose and only harm me when enforced. But if "adhere to all rules" is your dogma, to each his own.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

But if "adhere to all rules" is your dogma, to each his own.

I, sometimes, drive faster than the posted limit.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

I, sometimes, drive faster than the posted limit.

Cheater....

[steve B]

It's not defering the fees from the seller to the buyer, it's circumventing them almost entirely. With a .01 price and high shipping fee Ebay recieves very little in the way of fees, the buyer as always pays none. Ebay has made a rule that doing that isn't allowed. (I think technically it might be a theft of services but a small one.)

What gives them the right to make this rule is that they provide
The servers the site runs on.
The expensive computer people to run those servers.
The ads promoting the site(Also not cheap)
All of which makes a nice venue that because it was first and at one time the best of its kind.
And that provides lots of customers.

And all that is worth something. To expect to be given free access to an advertising venue that's been built up to a very successful level is pretty unfair. I'm not big fan of their fees and rules, but it Is their site and therefore their rules.

Steve B

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Cheater....

I know. I know. But I'm better now that I have two teenage drivers. Too many questions that were too hard to answer.

The problem I have with an issue like this is, how do you know where to draw the line? If it's OK to cheat Ebay because you don't like their rules, is it OK to cheat State and Local governments that expect sales tax? Then, is it OK to cheat the IRS by not reporting any profits? If it's not OK to cheat those you sell to, is it OK to cheat those you buy from (suppliers, vendors, grading companies, other sellers)?

I fine definitive lines only in two places. It's not OK to cheat anyone, or it's OK to cheat them all.

As I say, with two kids in the house, I have to say the only answer is the first choice.