I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

[botn]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Interesting that Graney is also wearing the white half-sock from a game played in 1911. Also interesting that Graney made it to at least second base in the game from which your prior newspaper photo of JoeJax appeared. Did you say you had read the play by play from that game? If so, was Graney ever retired at 3B?

Hi Todd,

Thank you. In the other game against the White Sox, Graney went 1 for 3 with a walk. The play by play did not mention the at bat which resulted in a hit. It did cover the at bat in which Graney was walked. It states "Graney stole second on the same ball but hesitated about going to third and when he made a belated start he was headed off and retired, Payne, Lord to Zeider." This at bat was in the 3rd inning and the article states only two other players touched 2nd base in the game. One of them was Jackson in the put out at 3rd. Not sure of the other.

[nolemmings]

The other was Easterly, who hit a double play ball that forced Lajoie (who hit the ball that got JoeJax out) at second, but who advanced to second on a wild relay throw. Next guy up hit a comebacker, and was thrown out at first.

So, if the t202 photo came from this game, only one guy was out at third for Cleveland, and that was JoeJAx.

[packs]

Wasn't the famous Conlon photo of Cobb sliding into third taken in 1909? I remember reading it was 1909. So if it is, and that photo from 1909 appears in the center of the T202, who's to say that the photo on this T202 was taken from the year before? There is absolutely no way to determine and extremely little chance it is Joe Jax. You guys have limited it down to one single game in one year, but how do you know the photo was even taken in 1911? What would suggest it was? There are countless cards in countless sets from the time that reused old photos. Clearly this set has in some cases.

[nolemmings]

I believe it was determined that Harry Lord would not have played for Chicago until the last two months of 1910, and that the Indians did not host the White Sox during that two month stretch, such that the photo was from 1911.

[53Browns]

Now all these cards on Ebay have them tagged as "Shoeless Joe" cards. Streeeeeeeetch. Just saying.

[FUBAR]

and JOEJAX would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids! Jinkies!

[Misunderestimated]

I can't believe that I didn't read this thread sooner ... Actually I skimmed some of it so please excuse any redundancies ...
the facts that that there is no side panel of JJ in the set is not explained by the fact that the side panels are with 1 exception* were limited to cards in the T205 set (the portraits were apparently created for that set ) and JJ was not included in that set. The T205 set drawings in turn would not have included JJ since he was not in the majors in 1910.
The center photos don't always identify the people in the pictures they often focus on whomever the title references and talk about him. Here the title player was Harry Lord so his "victim" in the play was not identified. The same holds true of the Elberfeld center photo cards.
I think someone may have noted this before but many of the photos in the T202 set appear in other places and at least one (the most famous one) was taken by Charles Conlon so perhaps it is possible to figure out from somewhere else -- some photo book or archive -- who Lord was tagging.

One other thought -- it stands to reason that the photos in the set (there are 76 of them as I recall) were not taken at different games. So maybe the mystery can be solved (or at least further illuminated) by figuring out which games between the Cleveland and the Chisox were in other photos (if there are any) in the set....
Anyway over the weekend I'm going to look at my T202s and see if I can add anything to this project.





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* Smokey Joe Wood whose debut was in 1911 was even more celebrated than JJs (among other reasons: he played for Boston not Cleveland)