I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

[botn]

Does anyone have access to an archive for box scores from 1911 from the Cleveland Plain Dealer? I checked the online archives for the New York Times and while they have box scores they do not address the caught stealing stat. Would the Sporting News have anything? Here is an example from the NYT online archive from the game between Naps and White Sox on May 5th. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...639C946096D6CF

Cleveland hosted Chicago on the following dates in 1911:

5/3-5/6
6/28-7/1
9/4 for a doubleheader

[barrysloate]

Greg- did you check Retrosheet, which is linked to this site? I'll take a look now.

Just checked- no box scores for 1911. Some years just have line scores.

[botn]

Hi Barry.

I did check the site and exchanged emails with David who runs the site. They do not have 1911 up yet. He suggested the New York Times. Someone has the play by play for these games or at the minimum a more detailed box score.

[sportscardtheory]

Wow. Those photos with him wearing that white half-sock are pretty convincing. What would the odds be that another player was wearing the same white half-sock on his right leg.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by sportscardtheory

Wow. Those photos with him wearing that white half-sock are pretty convincing. What would the odds be that another player was wearing the same white half-sock on his right leg.

There is another Cleveland player in the Joss photo wearing the same half white on the right leg, another just on the left, and one on both legs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Probably an ankle wrap. There are lots of them in the Addie Joss photo.

[tbob]

The Cleveland player two to the right of Lajoie also has a right ankle wrap.

[Tcards-Please]

Greg,

How do we know that he was really "caught stealing" and not just thrown out on a regularly played ball?

r/
Frank

[packs]

I looked at the Cleveland T200 and Jackson has his stirrups all the way down on both legs. If Jackson was injured and wearing the half stirrup for a limited time, it would be very lucky to have caught him in action with his injury. The Joss game was towards the end of July, when were the photos for the T5 set taken? Were they taken before the 1911 season, after, during? He's wearing his stirrups down in that photo.

I think the big question is, are there any players featured on the centerfolds of the T202 set that don't also appear in the set as a tab? I know some images are identified and some aren't, but are there any images that aren't identified on the card, but can be identified unconditionally, and the player doesn't appear in the set itself? For example, in the Cobb stealing photo he is sliding into Jimmy Austin, who also is featured in the set as a tab.

[botn]

Originally Posted by T's please

Greg,

How do we know that he was really "caught stealing" and not just thrown out on a regularly played ball?

r/
Frank

Frank,

You are correct. The back of the card only states "The runner was out at third and he might well be; for the bag was being held down by the able Harry D. Lord of the Chicago White Sox." Finding a play by play which covers the game in such detail that it recorded ordinary put outs is going to be a long shot. I thought if a play by play could be found which listed the caught stealing stat it might be more conclusive one way or another.

Greg

[Exhibitman]

Find games Lord and JJ both played in during 1910-1911

[benjulmag]

Second best post on this thread (after Brett) is bmarlowe1. Without more, we'll never know.

That said, I strongly suspect the market value of this card has increased materially and that many/most future descriptions will make reference to Joe Jackson being depicted in the middle panel. In this hobby, fact often plays a very small role.

[Bob Lemke]

Let me also congratulate Brett on a great first contribution to this forum.

I have a full set of TSN microfilm for those years, which offered great box scores, but the film is in PA and I am WI.

For what it's worth, as someone mentioned, the National Game action card that is widely believed to picture Ty Cobb sliding sells (or at least carried a "book" value of 6X the other action cards in the set.

If corroborative evidence is found that it is, indeed, Joe Jax in an uncredited cameo on the T202, I could see similar increase in demand/price.

[tbob]

Did anyone else notice that in the Addy Joss panorama picture Jack Graney is pictured twice?