My thoughts on these stupid grading posts

[teetwoohsix]

Exergonic

[barrysloate]

Kenny- In one of the threads about PSA I started what I hoped was a lively conversation about how the whole system of grading could be improved. Did you feel that was a waste of time, or a fair discussion? You can answer either way, I won't be offended.

[kkkkandp]

Since my main focus is on Old Judge cards (where getting a grade above GOOD is a monumental accomplishment 90% of the time), my reply may not translate as well to other issues, but I think it is generally true.

I said this just the other day to someone - because there does tend to be so much criticism of the service they provide, the card grading industry should consider remarketing itself. Perhaps they should establish a set of realistic and practical universal standards, but I'll say later why even that won't help.

First and foremost, these things we collect are picture cards. To not take the picture quality into consideration in the grade is ludicrous. We have all seen Old Judge cards where the image looks as if it was taken in a London fog, but the card has graded EXCELLENT. Sorry, that's just wrong.

The back is pristinely clean. So what? It's blank. Other issues do have writing on the reverse, some more important (statistics, in my opinion) than others. Back and variation collectors will likely disagree, but I buy the card pretty much for the picture alone.

But cards are graded on technicalities. Expanding the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" concept to that grading work is exactly why card grading will continue to be received with derision. Even with universal standards, will every grader see the same corner rounding or the same dirt smudges in the same way?

I would be very satisfied with a service that marketed itself simply as:

(1) Being able to tell with 100% certainty that the card had not been altered in any way;
(2) Providing a holder that enhanced the presentation and protected the card.

After that, I'll decide how perfectly beautiful it is.

[barrysloate]

I'm with you all the way Kevin, but I doubt it will ever change.

[RichR]

Totally agree.

[T206Collector]

This post is ironically already spawning another dialogue about the importance of grading to the hobby, which I'm pretty sure was not the intent of the original poster.

Moreover, the sentiment exprssed in this post was already expressed by a number of folks in the recent grading threads. Not sure why it deserved its own thread.

Finally, keep in mind that this is a board about shared experiences in the hobby, of which grading is a meaningful part. If you excluded it from the discussion, you'd winnow down some amount of productive and useful conversation.

Now back to your rodent sex.

[HRBAKER]

I can certainly see from the title of the posts in question how someone could not have known they were about grading and ended up wasting their time (sarcasm).

The board is not the same thing to every poster or reader nor should it be.

I don't give a rat's a** about grading one way or the other but if people think there is merit in discussing it, so be it.

[jmk59]

Grading is a significant part of the hobby, and threads that productively discuss the idiosyncrasies and possible improvements are relevant to the hobby and the board. But we all know grading is partially subjective. We all know it's imperfect. So I definitely agree 100% with the OP that we really shouldn't have to hear about every individual person's negative experience with these known issues as if it's the biggest surprise and injustice ever.

And somewhere, Joe P may have rose himself up long enough to applaud this thread!

J

[Rich Klein]

Or Frank:

Hey, there are many positives to grading -- having said that, as we saw, when you lose several thousand dollars (although it was your own mistake) many people need to vent a bit. That's what occured.

And as for Kevin, who wants to know that his cards are authentic without a grade, it is real simple, just request the "A" for every card you submit and don't ask for a number grade.

Regards
Rich

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

And as for Kevin, who wants to know that his cards are authentic without a grade, it is real simple, just request the "A" for every card you submit and don't ask for a number grade.

Rich:

I'm not sure even that works correctly 100% of the time.

I never cared enough about grading to delve into the specific reasons why cards get the grade they do. I think I have read in several posts on the board (although I do not believe the posts were by anyone from one of the grading services) that cards are often graded as AUTHENTIC simply because they do not meet the minimum published dimensional requirements. If that is the case, you could get an AUTHENTIC grade on a card that actually deserved a numeric one because while it was "short" it was short due to a period cut, not a recent one.

Maybe Brian Dwyer could chime in on that.

Kevin

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

Since my main focus is on Old Judge cards (where getting a grade above GOOD is a monumental accomplishment 90% of the time), my reply may not translate as well to other issues, but I think it is generally true.

I said this just the other day to someone - because there does tend to be so much criticism of the service they provide, the card grading industry should consider remarketing itself. Perhaps they should establish a set of realistic and practical universal standards, but I'll say later why even that won't help.

First and foremost, these things we collect are picture cards. To not take the picture quality into consideration in the grade is ludicrous. We have all seen Old Judge cards where the image looks as if it was taken in a London fog, but the card has graded EXCELLENT. Sorry, that's just wrong.

The back is pristinely clean. So what? It's blank. Other issues do have writing on the reverse, some more important (statistics, in my opinion) than others. Back and variation collectors will likely disagree, but I buy the card pretty much for the picture alone.

But cards are graded on technicalities. Expanding the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" concept to that grading work is exactly why card grading will continue to be received with derision. Even with universal standards, will every grader see the same corner rounding or the same dirt smudges in the same way?

I would be very satisfied with a service that marketed itself simply as:

(1) Being able to tell with 100% certainty that the card had not been altered in any way;
(2) Providing a holder that enhanced the presentation and protected the card.

After that, I'll decide how perfectly beautiful it is.

This is easily one of the best post I have ever read, on this, or any board. Bravo Kevin, bravo.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

I would be very satisfied with a service that marketed itself simply as:

(1) Being able to tell with 100% certainty that the card had not been altered in any way;
(2) Providing a holder that enhanced the presentation and protected the card.

After that, I'll decide how perfectly beautiful it is.

+1