T206 Wagner proof strip now in Philly...

[barrysloate]

Was it Leland's?

[drc]

I believe Solomon Cramer auctioned it a number of years back.

[tedzan]

these proof cards look to me as having been pasted together on a horizontal strip. The reasons for my skepticism are as follows......

(1) The Wagner's colors are complete, while the colors of the other 4 subjects are incomplete (this is a printing impossibility).

........Wagner's collar is blue, but the other 4 collars are not.

........CYoung's uniform has no color and his background is a pale green (it's missing the final blue ink to darken it)

(2) There are NO lines between cards on an uncut sheet, panel, or strip....what you see here are 5 individual cards.


No siree, this is not a production type uncut strip of five T206 cards.



TED Z

[thegashousegang]

great observations, Ted. Wish I could see them in person to get a firsthand look - but I won't be heading down to a Phillies game for a little while this season.

[M's_Fan]

Its very likely that this was a test strip, in which they were experimenting with different colors, and the final T206 colors were very different from this test/experimentation piece. So the colors don't bother me. And I don't think you could paste together several cards without there being some evidence of an actual seam, real T206's dont' have this line, but pasted cards would have a seam, so this is clearly one piece of paper with test markings on it. And who would take a Wagner and paste it with some other cards? It sold for only $200k, a strip card is probably less valuable than a stand alone Wag. That theory doesn't add up. This is a legit T206 test strip. It has its oddities and we'll never know its full history, but it isn't fake or manufactured IMO.

[drdduet]

Good call Ted, albeit an easy one. I agree totally. What gave it away to me were the lines, your keen observations on the colors make it completely obvious!

once again great job

[tedzan]

Sorry to disagree with you, but those vertical lines between the cards are seams. This improvised strip was done in 1909
for whatever purposes. Bill Zimplemann discovered it in Wagner's estate near Pittsburgh several decades ago..

And, the inconsistent colors should bother you, because each inking phase of the 6-color process in printing these cards
was applied simultaneously on all cards on a given sheet, panel, or strip.

Finally, your.."And who would take a Wagner and paste it with some other cards?"..is laughable. In 1909 a T206 Wagner
was no different than a T206 Wilhelm.


TED Z

[teetwoohsix]

I can't explain the lack of color,or the seams,but I can see what M's Fan means by it appearing to be one piece of paper-when you look at the wear between the Young and the Kling,it appears to be one piece.Wouldn't the wear be peeling away down the middle,exposing a paste job?

I've not yet seen any other example of uncut T206 sheets to compare this to,has anyone else?

Clayton

[dstudeba]

As I recall it was found in the pocket of a pair of pants in Wagner's home. I think that is probably where the "carry it around in his back pocket" came from.

I also believe it is a single sheet of printed cards, I do not believe that they are 5 seperate cards pasted together.

[onlychild]

(1) The Wagner's colors are complete, while the colors of the other 4 subjects are incomplete (this is a printing impossibility).

........Wagner's collar is blue, but the other 4 collars are not.

I dunno Ted...compared to the other Wagner's it certainly seems to be missing some or all of the blue.

The seams or lines are sure strange. it would be great to see up close and in person.

[HOF Yankees]

this past march I went to a antiques and collectibles show here in Waukesha,wi and my 2 buddies and I wanted to go and check stuff out, now we scanned the whole show floor nothing real good until we came to one of the last show cases and saw a similar card like that one un graded. I should have bought it to take a chance but the chances were like -.01 percent chance the one I saw at the show was real but for 5.00 I should have taken that chance. Awesome strip card by the way.

[M's_Fan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Sorry to disagree with you, but those vertical lines between the cards are seams. This improvised strip was done in 1909
for whatever purposes. Bill Zimplemann discovered it in Wagner's estate near Pittsburgh several decades ago..

They don't look like seams to me, but I haven't examined the card in person. Does anyone have a scan of the back?

Originally Posted by tedzan

And, the inconsistent colors should bother you, because each inking phase of the 6-color process in printing these cards was applied simultaneously on all cards on a given sheet, panel, or strip..

Again, that is assuming the normal printing processes of T206. I'm just saying that it is quite likely that this test strip was an experimentation piece, where all bets are off. The printer could have been experimenting with all sorts of color processes and sequences.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Finally, your.."And who would take a Wagner and paste it with some other cards?"..is laughable. In 1909 a T206 Wagner
was no different than a T206 Wilhelm. TED Z

I was thinking that someone wouldn't have done this in modern era, I wasn't considering that someone would have done this in 1909. I was thinking that in the modern era, someone with a valuable Wagner wouldn't risk everything to gain so little by attaching it to a sheet. It doesn't make the card more valuable, based on its recent auction. It doesn't add up to me, but I'm admittedly just going on my gut feeling here.

But I really can't see why someone would have done it in 1909 either now that you mention it for the reasons you stated, nobody cared much about these cards in 1909, so why, in 1909, would anyone bother to attach them to a sheet with the precision of an accomplished card doctor? That someone did this back in the early 1900's is even more unlikely, and actually quite laughable, to borrow a phrase...

[aelefson]

Hi-
I was able to look at this strip a number of years ago when Steve Verkman owned it (or was holding it for the owner). I examined it at one of the Shriner's Wilmington MA shows. I do not recall it feeling/looking like it was made up of several cards pasted onto a strip, but my memory is not the greatest. Perhaps an email to Steve might clear up some of the confusion (or start it anew).
Yours in collecting,
Alan Elefson