Deadball Player Skill???

Zach Wheat · #1 04-02-2010, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

I think the way players held bats back then...hands apart at times...was because the game was different and placing the batted ball where you wanted was more prevalent than going for the home run. I'm sure the caliber of play has improved over the years...as in any games evolution.

I recently read a book about Walter Johnson - Baseball's Big Train by Henry Thomas (whom I believe is a board member) and the section on his speed relative to both other deadball ptichers of the era and modern pitchers was very interesting. I need to preface the following by saying that the mehtods of measuring Johnson's speed - although electronic - were done at a gun range, in street clothes and in a manner which forced him to pitch in an unorthodox manner to hit the target required to measure his speed.

On pg. 105 Thomas details how in October of 1912 Johnson went to the Remington Arms gun range to settle some of the debate brought about by FC Lane (editor of Baseball Magazine) and the frequent discussion about how much faster Walter Johnson pitched than other deadball pitchers. The test also included Nap Rucker, who was purported to be the fastest pitcher in the NL.

At length, the testers had difficulty accomodating Johnsons side arm delivery such that the baseball would travel through a wire timing apparatus and hit a steel plate some distance away. After numerous adjustments, while in street clothes, with various adjustments to his normal delivery, they got a several readings. The method and manner in which the tests were done most certainly affected the speed at which he was able to pitch. The speed of the baseball going through the trip wires was measured at 82 MPH; while Nap Ruckers was measured at 75.9 MPH.

Most certainly Johnson pitched faster than this in game situations - but being able to pitch almost 8% faster than other pitchers of that era, certainly is impressive.

In June of 1933, Lefty Gomez and Van Mungo, purported to be two of the fastest pitchers of the '30's, were tested at West Point presumably with more modern equipment. Mungo registered in at the same as Ruckers (75.9 MPH) and Gomez came in at a shade under 75 MPH.

- M Wheat

ethicsprof · #2 04-02-2010, 11:40 AM

Looking at my T222 Lapp and seeing that huge,floppy catcher's mitt, i'm so amazed at how well the players did their job with such limited resources compared to the modern day.
I must say i somehow prefer the limited resources and the giftedness of their
gameplaying over most everything modern.
best,
barry

SteveMitchell · #3 04-03-2010, 03:30 PM

Just a quick note of thanks for all who posted on this subject. I really enjoyed reading the arguments on all sides.

The small change in raw speed (100 meters time) over many years really caught my eye. As a high school freshman my school had a rolled cinders track that wasn't much good even for the early sprint events and was soup by the end of the meet. Spikes were quite heavy (lead weights would not be a completely unfair description) even as late as the 1960's - especially compared with the featherlights of the past few decades.

All in all, I'm quite convinced that the deadball era's players were men of significant accomplishment within the rules and limitations of their day, and certainly worthy of being called Major Leaguers. Today's game still has appeal for me - though I don't look forward to opening day as I once did - due to the over-exposure, detailed analysis and cheating (especially steroids).

For me, the dedication of Lawrence S. Ritter's classic The Glory of Their Times applies:

"This book is dedicated to the men who live within its pages. . . 'All these were honored in their generation, And were the glory of their times. Ecclesiasticus 44:7'"

prewarsports · #4 04-03-2010, 03:51 PM

As a former College Baseball player myself and someone who has faced 93-97 MPH Fastballs in my time, I can assure you that being able to throw a Baseball fast is a gift and not really a developed talent. I have met kids with no formal baseball coaching and no weight training programs and who lived off of Hostess cupcakes and Mt. Dew who could hit 90+ MPH on a radar gun. They were just born with the ability. I think it would be extremely ethnocentric to believe that similar guys 100 years ago could not do the same thing.

I am 100% convinced that Walter Johnson and Bob Feller and most likely even Amos Rusie could throw as fast as anyone today, 95-100 mph.

For Example, I went to a Seattle Mariners game a few years ago and Brandon Morrow was pitching. Skinny 19-20 year old kid with pimples still on his face. He got up to the mound and shot several pitches at 103 MPH on the stadium gun. Whether he was born in 1990 or 1890, that kid would be pitching the same speed because he was not the product of modern science (his arms looked like skinny garden hoses). He was just born with the ability to throw a 100 MPH fastball. Maybe coaches and conditioners helped him harness his God given ability by 5 MPH, but nothing modern made that Fastball go from 80-103 MPH.

Just my thoughts

Rhys

Rhys

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