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#1
02-10-2010, 09:39 AM
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"The Card" was a great book, and one of the only to hold the collecting industry accountable. In no way does he support Cobb/Edwards, only presents the facts as they were. In the end, they look pretty stupid in the book. But this comment above...
"But when you write unfavorable things about such decent, wholesome, honest guys like Bill Mastro" ... well, now... that just takes the cake! Be careful of boosterism. Follow the money. Journalism 101. 
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#2
02-10-2010, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Psst! Brian! (It was sarcasm.)
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#3
02-10-2010, 10:00 AM
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Jeff, you really had me going with the first paragraph; nice satirical writing!
I did not get the impression from the book that O'Keefe was suggesting that racism or other unfair bias is really at the core of the Cobb/Edwards mess--he was simply reporting their excuses and the responses people had to them. I do think what he was suggesting is that anyone who refuses to accept third party grading ("TPG") as the ultimate arbiter of card quality and authenticity falls outside the orthodoxy of the card collecting world and is often treated as a pariah in the hobby sight unseen when they try to market a rare card. TPG is not the panacea for all that ails the card world. The book itself exposes some of the stinky in the po' that often accompanies big money and slabbing. It isn't particularly ground-shaking stuff--VCBC was on the TPG thing over a decade ago. IMO O'Keefe is much like Jose Canseco: painfully right about a lot of things that many powerful players in the hobby would prefer not to have the collecting base read about.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 02-10-2010 at 10:01 AM.
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#4
02-10-2010, 10:48 AM
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It was Cobb or Edwards who accused this board of racism a few years back when we had that long thread about their card. And even that antique dealer who was helping them sell it (I forget his name) suggested the same thing on that HBO special when he said there wouldn't have been this controversy if the owners were white. There's no better way to ignore the facts than to play the race card.
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#5
02-10-2010, 11:32 AM
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Having not ever seen their card myself, only having read about it, is it not possible that these two men experienced racism during their quest to authenticate and sell that card? Has it never crossed anyone's mind that they dress stereotypically urban in nearly every pictured posted of them in articles, books and online media? And that perhaps that has had an effect (however unconscious it might be) on how their card was viewed? Is that so far out of the realm of possibility?
Maybe it is completely false that they were in any way treated differently because of race. However, their very existence might defy some sort of built-in aristocracy. I'm only being a devil's advocate here, not pointing specific fingers, as I know of no one to point at.
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#6
02-10-2010, 11:35 AM
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**IMO O'Keefe is much like Jose Canseco: painfully right about a lot of things that many powerful players in the hobby would prefer not to have the collecting base read about.**
Well, O'Keefe is a journalist, whereas Canseco was a player. If O'Keefe was a card dealer or grader, then they would accurately compare. I think Canseco emerged as a much more anti-Capra/Rockwellian character, defying that all-American adage: "Don't snitch." Doesn't mean he wasn't right. I've come to dislike the whole steroids lot so much that I admire Canseco for doing what perhaps no one else was willing to do.
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#7
02-10-2010, 11:46 AM
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Brian- I have no idea how they were treated, but the card is still fake. Their position with regard to this board was, who were we to pass judgment on the authenticity of their card? We tried to explain to them that many of the most advanced and knowledgeable people in the card collecting hobby congregate here, and if there was anybody who had the skill to determine whether or not it was real it was this group. But that wasn't good enough for them. Most of the people involved in the discussion got pretty agitated, myself included.
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#8
02-10-2010, 12:20 PM
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Yeah, I read the entire thread a while back. Is there a place where a scan of their card can be viewed?
I believe I have every official Wagner T206 reprint, of which, a lot of the "scuffed-up" fakes come from. I might be able to identify which reprint their card comes from. Though in recent years, a lot of very good Wagner fakes have emerged that look much closer to the real thing than any previous "official" reprints did.
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#9
02-10-2010, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
I don't doubt they have experienced subtle and not-so-subtle forms of racism in this. But the card is an obvious fake. Hearing that from a bunch of racists is certainly a lot less pleasant than hearing that from others, but it does not change the fact that 99% of T206 collectors (racist or not) can tell from a two second glance at the card that it is obviously fake. And while there may have been a couple of inappropriate comments in the discussion of this card on the board, my recollection is that the focus was on the card. The guys did not like what they heard about the card and the ball rolled from there. JimB
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#10
02-10-2010, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
The problem was that they wanted to be treated differently, and they weren't. They insisted on being in the grading room when the card was graded. They claimed that they would not be able to keep a grading company from switching out their "original" for a fake! Needless to say, no grading company would accommodate their wishes. They have gotten exactly what they deserve and I don't care what color they are.
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