BVG vs. Every Other Grading Company

[jb217676]

I totally agree with oldjudge. Are they not ripping off the novice collector who might just look at the numerical grade only, not knowing that the card is actually 5-6 grades lower? Why doesn't Beckett just grade everything BGS or BVG, so the useless BCCG graded junk is not in the marketplace? Why would Beckett slap their name on something collector's laugh at?

[oldjudge]

Jeff provides a good example. If a card would be graded Ex by Beckett's normal service but is called NrMt by a second Beckett service which provides grading for HSN, then that is just wrong. I don't use Beckett (and knowing this I never would) but if I had seen a NrMt Beckett graded card on HSN I would have assumed it was truely NrMt. In fact, I would have been paying for NrMt and getting Ex--sounds like a fraud to me.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Jeff provides a good example. If a card would be graded Ex by Beckett's normal service but is called NrMt by a second Beckett service which provides grading for HSN, then that is just wrong. I don't use Beckett (and knowing this I never would) but if I had seen a NrMt Beckett graded card on HSN I would have assumed it was truely NrMt. In fact, I would have been paying for NrMt and getting Ex--sounds like a fraud to me.

The slab doesn't call it NrMt. It would give it a numerical grade of 9/10 and then say "EX or better."

[oldjudge]

Oh, so "10" doesn't signify Mint?

[oldjudge]

Looking at Ebay I found the following BCCG grade descriptions:

10-Mint or better (whatever that means)
9-NrMT or better
8-Ex or better

[Leon]

Here is an old thread when Mark Anderson, their Director of Grading, responded to the BCCG question...I hope this helps.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=BCCG

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jb217676

I totally agree with oldjudge. Are they not ripping off the novice collector who might just look at the numerical grade only, not knowing that the card is actually 5-6 grades lower? Why doesn't Beckett just grade everything BGS or BVG, so the useless BCCG graded junk is not in the marketplace? Why would Beckett slap their name on something collector's laugh at?

Agree all you want to....doesn't bother me a bit. If you care to read my last post you will answer your own question(s). It's called Business 101. They have a book on it at the library. As far as discrediting their other services that's for each person to decipher for themself. My understanding is that the BCCG is a much less expensive service and again, is geared at mass merchants looking for a cheap grading service. Think what you want to...

[jb217676]

I am O.K. with the cheap alternative theory, but why does the numerical grade have to be cheap? Why couldn't the same grade be given to a BCCG card as a BVG or BGS. Beckett could keep the BCCG price level lower by putting the cards in less expensive cases. This would keep the grading results consistent across the board.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jb217676

I am O.K. with the cheap alternative theory, but why does the numerical grade have to be cheap? Why couldn't the same grade be given to a BCCG card as a BVG or BGS. Beckett could keep the BCCG price level lower by putting the cards in less expensive cases. This would keep the grading results consistent across the board.

Jeff- if you read what Beckett stated in that thread I just posted then I think you will have your answers. Mark stated he wasn't thrilled with that service and it wouldn't be for him personally. I can't really state it any better than he did and I agree with him that this could be an all day circular debate. I am politely getting off of the merry-go-round now. ..take care

[jb217676]

I am getting of this ride also. Let's take it back to the beginning of the thread. A BVG 7 1952 Topps Mantle and a PSA 7 1952 Topps Mantle are on the same table. You have a duffel bag o'cash on hand. Which one do you grab? If you didn't choose the BVG Mantle, why? PSA set registries aside.

[HRBAKER]

I haven't used BVG and BCCG is the precise reason. I did once use BVG for grading at the National because I had a credit due to purchasing a questionable card in a BVG holder. They made right on it but the whole BCCG thing is just wrong IMO. I will add that all of the BVG cards that I have purchased on ebay and elsewhere (less than 20) all appear to be very accurately graded and the holder is tank-like.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by jb217676

I am getting of this ride also. Let's take it back to the beginning of the thread. A BVG 7 1952 Topps Mantle and a PSA 7 1952 Topps Mantle are on the same table. You have a duffel bag o'cash on hand. Which one do you grab? If you didn't choose the BVG Mantle, why? PSA set registries aside.

Jeff,

I'd buy whichever card looks nicer. I don't care what the number on the plastic says.

[drdduet]

BVG is a quality 3rd party authenticator and grader. I have no qualms buying cards encapsulated, unless of course I plan to crack it out of its tomb, then I prefer SGC and PSA.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by jb217676

I am O.K. with the cheap alternative theory, but why does the numerical grade have to be cheap? Why couldn't the same grade be given to a BCCG card as a BVG or BGS. Beckett could keep the BCCG price level lower by putting the cards in less expensive cases. This would keep the grading results consistent across the board.

MARKETING!!!

With BCCG, no card will ever be graded lower than a 5. Their grades are 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10. That's it.

Also, the slabs are cheaper. There is no card sleeve inside. And, if you submit in enough quantity, I believe you can get a price as low as $2.00 a card!


In fairness, all of this would be fine IF THE GRADING SCALES WERE THE SAME! But they're not.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

In fairness, all of this would be fine IF THE GRADING SCALES WERE THE SAME! But they're not.

In case the book is checked out at the library, the class still has a few spots open:

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

In case the book is checked out at the library, the class still has a few spots open:

Thanks Rob...in this virtual world I forgot about some of the methods we can now use to teach.

Jeff- For me, and consider the source, I would personally pick BVG as I think they are very good at grading. I am sure PSA does a great job too.

[SethY]

So if I have a card in a BVG Authentic holder it would be pretty likely to be crossed over easily into an SGC A holder?

I would pick Beckett as a secong choice unless I have a EX front card and a bit of damage on the back then PSA so that way I can get a really high grade for a really low grade card. SGC is #1 for me and I don't buy many beckett cards because I don't see many in my collecting interest to buy. They are very consistant from what I have seen and market does normally command close to Average so this is good.

Jeff the BVG Mantle hands down. Then cross to PSA for a 9 and off to auction

[barrysloate]

I don't understand the concept that Beckett grades on a 5-10 scale because they want to offer a cheap alternative to their BVG service. Doesn't it cost the same to properly grade a card as it does to overgrade it?

[E93]

Originally Posted by Leon

Jeff- For me, and consider the source, I would personally pick BVG as I think they are far more consistent in their grading, and know more about pre-war, than most of the graders at that grading company from California that is part of Collectors Universe. Just my opinion and many will disagree.

Leon,
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but let's separate opinions from speculation. Do you know how many graders there are at PSA? Among them, how many grade vintage cards? And among those that grade vintage cards, how many have you had in-depth discussions with such than you would be in a place to draw an informed conclusion about their knowledge of vintage cards? Sure PSA has made mistakes. From my unscientific observation, the grading companies each make mistakes in approximately equal proportion to the number of cards they grade. You may know the graders at BVG and based on that know that they are knowledgeable about pre-War cards. Since I have hardly seen any pre-war cards in BVG holders, presuming they were knowledgeable in that are would be a giant leap of faith for me. I would certainly trust them with '89 Donruss if I had any.
JimB

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

MARKETING!!!

With BCCG, no card will ever be graded lower than a 5. Their grades are 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10. That's it.

Also, the slabs are cheaper. There is no card sleeve inside. And, if you submit in enough quantity, I believe you can get a price as low as $2.00 a card!


In fairness, all of this would be fine IF THE GRADING SCALES WERE THE SAME! But they're not.

But these slabs go to 11. ($1 to Nigel Tufnel)

[ChiefBenderForever]

I have a few BVG in my Bender collection, a T206 portrait El Princ, a nice T202, and a really nice Turkey Red. All the cards are very nice and undergraded in my opionion. It seems to me that BVG grades tougher if anything and their cases are pretty much tamper proof. I pretty much go by eye appeal, so if it's in BVG, SGC, or PSA it doesn't matter to me one way or another, it's all good.

[famousgolfers]

Actually, don't they have 3 grading groups/labels - BGS, BVG and BCCG? Each of them also has their own grading scale. BGS is for cards after 1980 and BVG is for cards 1980 and before (or something close to that). BCCG is for just about anything.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

But these slabs go to 11. ($1 to Nigel Tufnel)

Aah! You mean this scale.

[FrankWakefield]

To answer Jeff's original post... low, not at the bottom, not at the top, slightly above middle. Yes I would and I have bought them, when it was a card I was after. All but one I broke out. I think I left a white border portrait of Elberfeld with Washington in the holder, because I was going to sell it, the card had Scotch magic tape on the back...

Seems that they shouldn't be selling cards if they're going to grade them. A bit of a breach of fiduciary duty there....

[erstevens]

When I was buying an engagement ring several years ago, a jeweler talked to me about diamond certification. There are reputable diamond certification services (GIA) and less reputable ones (EGL). One jeweler can sell "ideal" diamonds with two different price levels. All buyers can walk out of the store and be happy with a graded ideal stone. In the end, it's buyer beware. It does seem that Beckett is being a bit risky by putting the Beckett name on both certification scales. On the other hand, they're banking a bit on the confusion.