1938 Goudey Proof

[uffda51]

(in the spirit of Spartacus) I am Archive!

[Batter67up]

I filed a complaint on his current auction with ebay. Hopefully this guy gets shut down. People like this give our hobby a really bad name.

[Bigb13]

Ebay and PayPal will do nothing about this shit. Rob

[Batter67up]

These type of things are the very reason people often get out of our hobby. The common theme: fake, counterfit, switched out cards. or unqualified graders or companies grading cards. Why should anyone take the risk of spending $100, $1000, or $10,000 on a card that is not real. Talk is cheap until you get burned yourself. I guess if you are filthy rich its not that big of a deal. I believe the majority of us don't fall into this group. Companies like PSA and SGA should prosecute these people to help ensure the intergrity of their industry. When we purchase over the internet it is often like flipping a coin on the validty of ther card. This was previously the case with raw cards and now this is the case with graded cards.

[teetwoohsix]

There are two MAJOR problems with this-
The seller selling the fake item knowing its a fake,and,GAI excusing themselves from any responsibility to buy these fakes back and get them out of the market.
I have heard of situations where PSA & SGC have made an error grading a fake,and did the right thing by purchasing the item back and removing it from circulation.
Ebay is also at fault for letting this seller sell the fakes.
Bad news all the way around.

[Al C.risafulli]

I'm not surprised that eBay and Paypal won't do anything about it, since the card the seller auctioned was properly described and the buyer received it and left positive feedback.

As far as PSA or SGC prosecuting, what's to prosecute? This is not the responsibility of the two grading companies that would never have graded these cards. It's the responsibility of collectors to be educated about the cards that they're buying - and it's also the responsibility of collectors to refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the grading company that slabbed this crap.

This is the "best grader in the hobby," by the way.

And if it sounds like I'm really pissed off about this, it's because I am - I collect '38 Goudey. It's my favorite set. I've devoted a good portion of my hobby time over the last 5 years learning about these cards, and trying to solve some of the set's mysteries. And there ARE mysteries, and one of them has to do specifically with "missing" cards that should have been produced - so the idea of "proof" cards is actually plausible. So when this kind of crap comes out, you bet it makes me crazy.

-Al

[teetwoohsix]

The guy selling them must be a real piece of work.You said he's been told numerous times they are fake,and any decent seller would quit selling them and thank you for pointing it out to him.
And you are right Al-he keeps on popping up with a new one,and keeps on with the "I've only seen two others....I've only seen three others...(something to that effect)"..........
So how many could he have?
What is Ebay doing about it?

[steve B]

Ok, so this is totally wrong, but I've seen it done by some of the old bicycle crowd when there's a scam afoot (Usually involving "selling" a bike that had been sold legitimately before - the scammer steals the picture and sells through a hijacked account)

What they've done is to have a second throwaway Ebay account, and two of the people bid the item up to some silly price like 2 million or so. Then they stall long enough for the bill to reach the seller for the fees. Tougher now that paypal is required, but still possible. Before the paypal only rule they'd claim they mailed payment, worked great since the scammers wanted it mailed to a different address.

And yes, it's very wrong and I wouldn't reccomend it etc......

Steve

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Batter67up

These type of things are the very reason people often get out of our hobby. The common theme: fake, counterfit, switched out cards. or unqualified graders or companies grading cards. Why should anyone take the risk of spending $100, $1000, or $10,000 on a card that is not real. Talk is cheap until you get burned yourself. I guess if you are filthy rich its not that big of a deal. I believe the majority of us don't fall into this group. Companies like PSA and SGA should prosecute these people to help ensure the intergrity of their industry. When we purchase over the internet it is often like flipping a coin on the validty of ther card. This was previously the case with raw cards and now this is the case with graded cards.

This particular mess isn't on PSA. It's not on SCG. Not Ebay. Not Paypal.


It falls on a company that no longer exists (GAI), the seller, and uneducated buyers. Allocate the blame in whatever proportion you'd like.

It won't stop until someone buys some of his cards and LEAVES NEGATIVE FEEDBACK! If you buy his cards, find out you've been scammed, and then leave positive feedback, you've become part of the problem.

A simple line stating "1938 Goudey cards are fake and the seller knows it!" would suffice.





Edited to add: By the way, anyone reading this thread who doesn't go all the way back, but at least to post #50, is doing themselves a disservice! BEST. THREAD. EVER.

[calvindog]

Yes, and I left two negative feedbacks for a fraudster who had an underbidder who just bids on his items and also has a fake name (yes, I checked) drive up my final price twice -- and the negative feedbacks were removed by ebay in 3 days without even telling me.

Look, as I've said repeatedly, this hobby is filled with fraud and it is presumed and shrugged off as a 'cost of doing business.' Auction companies engage in multi-million dollar obvious fraud and a majority of people on the board still defend them. Dealers at shows lie to customers' faces and we're told that we should just laugh about it and walk away.

By the way, I have now been banned by Mastro/Legendary which makes them the second set of great guys who have banned me in the past six months. So, at least I'm annoying the right people.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dealers at shows lie to customers' faces and we're told that we should just laugh about it and walk away.

Wasn't me that told you that! I do see a difference between a dealer who drastically overprices his cards and an auction house that shills. The former is just stupidity. The latter is fraud.

The part where he told you it was "Cobb's Rookie"? That moved him past stupidity and into fraud.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by calvindog

By the way, I have now been banned by Mastro/Legendary...

Nice that they waited until after you bought your D322 Wagner from them to do that.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

By the way, anyone reading this thread who doesn't go all the way back, but at least to post #50, is doing themselves a disservice! BEST. THREAD. EVER.

I agree. This thread was positively priceless. Thanks to those who revived the discussion about it.

Edited to add: The Andrew thread is definitely a close second, though, in my opinion

Sorry I didn't find Net54 sooner. You guys (and gals) are great.

Peace to all. Hope I didn't stir things up too much by bumping this thread back to the top.

Best Regards,

Eric