Ebay Fraud

[egbeachley]

If you haven't already done so, grab the scans off Ebay before they are deleted.

[D. Bergin]

Buyer shouldn't have problems getting money back on this transaction. All points look to be a scam, seeing as the scans were stolen and the fact it doesn't make sense offering the Matthews and the Mantle in a single lot.

Looking at the feedback of the seller he must be perfectly aware of how things go with with Ebay and Paypal. I think this is a much more subtle scam and something people should look out for, even if they are not the intended victim or they receive a refund on the transaction from Paypal.

I believe the intended victim here is UPS to be perfectly honest. I worked at UPS for over 10 years. Packages valued at over $5000 are treated completely separate from all the other packages. They get handled separately throughout the entire system and are kept track of separately from the time they are picked up from the time they are delivered. They are kept separate from the rest of the load on whatever truck they are on to avoid damage or crushing. They also do not spend time on the same conveyor belts as most other packages.

I imagine it's similar to Registered Mail through the USPS. Because of this extra handling, if something does happen UPS is likely to pay out the claim quickly because the package is under watch at all times and claims rarely happen on packages of those values.

However there's no way of knowing if an Insured package actually had the items in there it was claimed since they don't search the boxes after they are Insured.

I think this guy sent out an empty box full of packing materials and a concealed slit in the packaging at the bottom of the box, hidden just enough so the driver picking up the package wouldn't notice it and it would at least get into the system before detected.

Now the guy has evidence of rifling when he goes to file a claim. He has to know Paypal is going to refund the customer so the final intended consequence is a nice windfall from a UPS claim for a couple of cards he never owned at any point in time.

I'm actually surprised we don't hear about stuff like this happening more often.

I'd have a hard time believing a UPS driver stole these cards. Any driver with a brain knows any packages of this type of value could be tracked back to him in less then a minute by the claims department. UPS drivers are well paid with very good benefits. No way one would risk losing that in a no-win situation.

I'm sure it's happened somewhere, but I've never ever seen or heard of a UPS driver stealing packages, not even as a rumor amongst themselves.

I have seen part-time warehouse guys get caught rifling through low value packages on occasion. These are usually new-hires who aren't aware UPS has cameras everywhere on the belts to check on if issues arise. When they catch somebody they make a big show of them. They call the police in the middle of a shift and have them brought out of the warehouse in cuffs in front of everybody working that shift as an example.

I remember we also had a Part-time supervisor caught slapping his own labels on computer boxes and diverting them to his own computer store. Once again easily tracked and a pretty dumb idea.

Not to say UPS is all gravy. Packages that aren't classified as high value or "hazardous", are usually beat to hell by the time they get where they are going. Everything is about efficiency, getting things done as quickly as possible, and packing trucks as tightly as humanely possible..........which is why they can pay guys as well as they do and still make a nice profit.

Christmas time the conveyor belts are jam packed and it's like sorting through an avalanche sometimes for the sorters and truck loaders (actually most of the time). If you ship through UPS, make sure you've packed the item to survive a war.........is all I'm saying.

That said, it's been nearly 10 years since I've worked there so I'm sure some things have changed, but I still talk to some of the guys and I don't think it's changed THAT much since I was there.

[Jim VB]

This seller has experience with these types of problems. He has 8 negs (8 items from the same transaction) that look like the same type of problem. They were from December 2008, so I'm not sure how he gets a 100% feedback rating.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

This seller has experience with these types of problems. He has 8 negs (8 items from the same transaction) that look like the same type of problem. They were from December 2008, so I'm not sure how he gets a 100% feedback rating.

Transaction date might have been older then the negs and they might have expired from the new 12 month Ebay cycle is my guess.

Maybe he busts out this scam once a year for Christmas presents and then goes back to business as usual to try to stay off the radar screen and not seem too obvious.

I think he might have just screwed that up by getting a bit too ambitious this time. Hopefully UPS calls him on it.

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I think this guy sent out an empty box full of packing materials and a concealed slit in the packaging at the bottom of the box, hidden just enough so the driver picking up the package wouldn't notice it and it would at least get into the system before detected.

Now the guy has evidence of rifling when he goes to file a claim. He has to know Paypal is going to refund the customer so the final intended consequence is a nice windfall from a UPS claim for a couple of cards he never owned at any point in time.

Bingo

[marvjung]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

That said, it's been nearly 10 years since I've worked there so I'm sure some things have changed, but I still talk to some of the guys and I don't think it's changed THAT much since I was there.

I'm inclined to agree.

I worked for UPS as well as a college student and they allowed only 4 to 5 hour shifts. After my first day, I understood why; I worked as a truck loader and I would take all the boxes off the conveyor belts and pack them into the trucks. We were trained to get the boxes in, as many as possible, into the trucks - whether we punched, kicked, forced the boxes into the container. Imagine Tetris, but you're allowed to use brute force, even when the pieces don't quite fit.

I agree completely that this is a more subtle scam based upon taking money from the shipping company itself. If the package had a very slight 4 or 5 inch slit in it, upon packing into a truck, using the methodolgy that I was trained in to pack a truck, that 4 or 5 inch slit could, and would have, easily expanded wide enough to make it look as if something fell out after a few poundings.

[wilkcards]

Wow, I just saw that complete auction and was thinking what a great deal that was for the Mantle, and Mathews. Hard to believe he would have even sold the cards for that price when they surely would go for more at auction.
Good luck on the refund!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Does UPS keep a record of the exact weight of a package? If so it would be easy to prove there were no slabs in it at the time it was dispatched.

[smtjoy]

Looks like a total scam.



In order to send a package USPS Registered it must be fully enclosed with Gum Tape. I have had to retape a couple of my boxes way back when I was first using this service. So I dont see any way anyone could have used this scam with registered mail.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by marvjung

I'm inclined to agree.

I worked for UPS as well as a college student and they allowed only 4 to 5 hour shifts. After my first day, I understood why; I worked as a truck loader and I would take all the boxes off the conveyor belts and pack them into the trucks. We were trained to get the boxes in, as many as possible, into the trucks - whether we punched, kicked, forced the boxes into the container. Imagine Tetris, but you're allowed to use brute force, even when the pieces don't quite fit.

I agree completely that this is a more subtle scam based upon taking money from the shipping company itself. If the package had a very slight 4 or 5 inch slit in it, upon packing into a truck, using the methodolgy that I was trained in to pack a truck, that 4 or 5 inch slit could, and would have, easily expanded wide enough to make it look as if something fell out after a few poundings.

Those were the days huh. I worked in that warehouse for 5 years. Definitely a young mans game but where else could you go to college and work part time for $12-15 bucks an hour in the late 80's. Those trucks were brutal BTW. I got out of those and up at a Pick-off spot in the rafters as soon as I possibly could. Still a hard job but not quite as backbreaking.

I remember they also had a program, if they recruited you to the management team as a part-time supervisor they would also pay for your college education. Pretty sweet if you were ambitious and didn't mind being a whipping boy for the full-time management.

I'm starting to wonder if the guy under-insured the package on purpose, because normally packages of that type of value get handed directly to a clerk by the driver as soon as he gets back to the building. The package is then looked over and re-taped or even re-packaged into an additional box if it looks weak.

I wonder if he insured it for under 5K to get it on the trucks un-noticed. He would have to have some knowledge of how UPS worked to decide on that method but it's not out of the realm of possibility.