THE 50 HR CLUB...a very telling list.....

ScottFandango · #1 07-13-2009, 06:46 PM

Pujols didnt "toil" in the minors...he made a short 1 year stay and went from single A to the AAA world series MVP in one year....he never needed to do steroids.....he was the most dominant player (by far) at ever step since he was 12 (when he hit a ball 450 ft)

In hindsight, Steroid usage becomes obvious on a personal timeline...a player has a spike for a few years, then falls off fast....a player becomes Huge seemingly overnight....In pujols timeline, there is not place where steroids would make sense....

and as far as his baggy clothes, if you ever saw his biceps, they are a bit flabby... large and thick but NOT cut AT ALL....doesnt even look like he works out...Bonds and Mcgwire looked like Muscle Mag cover freaks!

In this day and age, the best players are going to be under suspicion, which is unfortunate for the clean few......we may be watching the best right handed hitter EVER (Bill James thinks so) so lets enjoy!

rdixon1208 · #2 07-13-2009, 07:25 PM

You couldn't convince me that he's not or hasn't been on the juice. No way.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

ScottFandango · #3 07-14-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdixon1208

You couldn't convince me that he's not or hasn't been on the juice. No way.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

please ellaborate...its very interesting to me to try and figure out why people think Pujolsis on juice....

i never heard a good reason except:

1. he is just too good to be natural
2. everyone else is doing it....

PLEASE MR DIXON ELLABORATE

ps

DID anyone see Pujols Labor in the HR derby? ! Glad he didnt win as Derby winners are associated with Steroids even moreso

JK · #4 07-14-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

he was the most dominant player (by far) at ever step since he was 12 (when he hit a ball 450 ft)

Wasn't Pujols drafted in the 13th round?

Regardless, I personally do not think that Pujols is juicing - its always interesting to me when people take the guilty until proven innocent approach to steriod use. Its as if, despite 100 plus years of baseball history and star players performing extraordinary feats on a baseball field, these folks think its no longer possible for a player to be that good without PEDs.

packs · #5 07-14-2009, 10:31 AM

I'm with you JK. As I said in my first post, you could just watch Griffey swing at air and know he was going to be one of the greatest hitters of all time. I don't see why a player can't be supremely talented anymore. If Nolan Ryan or Koufax came up today would you guys assume they were on the juice too just because they were once in a generation players?

I admit I didn't see A-rod or Manny coming. Maybe I should have. But to me Pujols looks like a clean player. One reason I believe that is because the guy never seems to be hamming it up in the spotlight or even seeking it. He just goes out and plays the game every day. I never hear an arrogant sound bite.

rdixon1208 · #6 07-14-2009, 12:10 PM

I can't take an "Innocent until proven guilty" approach to players who put up huge numbers during the steroid era. Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and many many many many more....all on the juice.

So really, my only case against Pujols is that everyone else is doing it. I don't need absolute proof to base my opinion on. If a player played in the steroid era, has a really muscular build, and puts up huge numbers, he's on the juice....in my opinion. You couldn't convince me otherwise.

drc · #7 07-14-2009, 12:58 PM

Please note there is no such thing as innocent until proven guilty. The "presumed innocent until proven guilty" is for the purposes of the court of law. Of course someone could have committed an act, even if others can't prove it.

Secondly, note that in a court of law the judge or jury doesn't never says you're "innocent." If cleared of the charges, they find you "not guilty." The law is perfectly well aware the system can and does let free people who committed the crime.

Lastly, note that neither Adolf Hitler nor John Wilkes Booth were never found guilty in a court of law during their last times. Obviously we (or most) don't use this as proof that they were innocent of their alleged crimes. People have used information and facts and testimony beyond the walls of a courtroom to come to the learned judgments that they were guilty.

In short, as far as the truth goes, there is no such thing as 'innocent until proven guilty.' On ESPN and FoxSports chatboards, it's not only a lazy (but convenient) misquote of what they law says and means, but the phrase is nonsensical when read literally. Not only that, but 99.9 percent of people, including those ESPN chatboard posters defending Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds, disagree with the literal interpretation of that phrase. The literal reading is on the order of saying "A woman isn't pregnant until the moment the doctor tells her she is pregnant. Thus, a woman who never sees a doctor can never be pregnant."

mannybb24 · #8 07-14-2009, 02:11 PM

Pujols in college was stocky, almost fat, that is why he lasted till the 13th round. Scouts thought he had a bad body but knew he could hit.
All of a sudden, he shot through the Cardinals system in a year and then he's winning the ROY. Hmmmm.
I'm not saying he did or is doing stuff but when I saw him play in Appleton when he was in A ball with the Peoria Chiefs, just out of Community College and he was big and lean all of a sudden.

ScottFandango · #9 07-14-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannybb24

Pujols in college was stocky, almost fat, that is why he lasted till the 13th round. Scouts thought he had a bad body but knew he could hit.
All of a sudden, he shot through the Cardinals system in a year and then he's winning the ROY. Hmmmm.
I'm not saying he did or is doing stuff but when I saw him play in Appleton when he was in A ball with the Peoria Chiefs, just out of Community College and he was big and lean all of a sudden.
He is also named in the Jason Grimsley case where Grimsley named Clemens, Pettite and a few others. Pujols' personal trainer and close friend was Grimsley's connection to roid's supposedly.

100% False....

i would edit that cause tha borders on slander........Grimsley's named trainer that was originally redacted was found out to be none other than Brian McNamee....

get your facts straight before you spout off lies on a public message board....

JK · #10 07-14-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mannybb24

Pujols in college was stocky, almost fat, that is why he lasted till the 13th round. Scouts thought he had a bad body but knew he could hit.
All of a sudden, he shot through the Cardinals system in a year and then he's winning the ROY. Hmmmm.
I'm not saying he did or is doing stuff but when I saw him play in Appleton when he was in A ball with the Peoria Chiefs, just out of Community College and he was big and lean all of a sudden.

This isnt entirely accurate either. Pujols was drafted late not only because he was stocky, but also because he was considered slow, there were questions regarding his true age and some questions regarding whether he could transition from aluminum to wood bats. One thing that has been constant all along, however, has been that he has hit with power. He was also a top 100 prospect out of high school. See the following links for more detail:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...rry&id=2894316

"But some scouts considered him too chunky and "heavy legged,'' and there were rumblings that he might be older than advertised. He played at Maple Woods Community College in Kansas City, and St. Louis scouting director John Mozeliak, at the urging of scouts Mike Roberts and Dave Karaff, saw him at a college tournament in Wichita and thought he was worth a shot. The Cards signed Pujols for a reported $60,000 and sent him to the instructional league in Jupiter, Fla. In his first at-bat, Pujols hit a ground ball up the middle. The next time up, he launched a shot off the roof of a building beyond the left field fence."

.......

and:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...that_got_away/

"``First of all," Jacobs said, ``his body wasn't great back then. Plus, people weren't sure how old the guy was. You assumed what he told you was true, but he wasn't a great body, and his swing was a little long.

``But he had big-time power, and you can't walk away from that kind of power. You do your homework, you study his aptitude, you figure you can fine-tune his swing and get his body better. His hands were very good for his size, and he had a good arm, playing shortstop.""

JK · #11 07-14-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc

Lastly, note that neither Adolf Hitler nor John Wilkes Booth were never found guilty in a court of law during their last times. Obviously we (or most) don't use this as proof that they were innocent of their alleged crimes. People have used information and facts and testimony beyond the walls of a courtroom to come to the learned judgments that they were guilty.

Sort of a ridiculous assertion to support your argument considering neither individual was ever tried before a court of law don't you think? Perhaps OJ would be a better example. Regardless, I find it simply beyond comprehension how anyone can argue that a player cannot be great today without using PEDs and yet believe that players in the non-steriod era were capable of such greatness. Heck, I'd even be willing to bet there were players with muscular builds in the non-steriod era.

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