Who's the real hobby villian -- Joe Orlando OR Dave Forman ?

[Rob D.]

Mud-throwing aside, thanks for providing my laugh for the day. After starting off with "Try not to throw mud if you don't know the details," we get (in order):

• "I forget all the fine points of the suit ..."
  
• "I believe and they wanted it crossed ..."
  
• "I forget why it get even messier ..."
  
• "but I do recall ... "
  
• "This was in one of the NY papers probably post of newsday."

Upon further review, maybe those nasty details aren't so important after all.

[mightyq]

i agree with jamie, send them your 52 mantle get in the same situation then come on here and say how happy you are!! i think not, james your apologist stance is distorting any rational thinking....they had the right to keep the card???? that is funny! like i said send them your $100,000 mantle and when they dont return and refuse to, come back here and tell us how excited and happy you are..then and only then i will buy your jive.

comparing mis-labels and and lack of customer support to this is another joke.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by mightyq

i agree with jamie, send them your 52 mantle get in the same situation then come on here and say how happy you are!! i think not, james your apologist stance is distorting any rational thinking....they had the right to keep the card???? that is funny! like i said send them your $100,000 mantle and when they dont return and refuse to, come back here and tell us how excited and happy you are..then and only then i will buy your jive.

comparing mis-labels and and lack of customer support to this is another joke.

Marty

Read the above post and the NY Post article. SGC wanted an release before they gave up the card which I don't think is unreasonable based on the details provided in the article.

The original posted asked what PSA has done and I just provided some details as to the problems they have had over the years and that there whole company is based on an altered Wagner that they still use as a cornerstone piece. I was not saying they were comparable.

oh and FYI I have plenty of PSA graded cards in my collection. I prefer SGC but I do use PSA and have plenty of PSA stuff.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

James you say don't throw mud and then proceed to throw it at PSA. At least you have now revealed your anti-PSA bias.

I don't understand your take on the Haas lawsuit. He wanted it bumped and was being an ass about it and therefore SGC had the right to keep the card? Could you explain? Thanks.

Peter my reply was speciftic to WarHoundR69 who just said Dave held a card.

There was more involved and I didn't have time to look for the article.

Here it is

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02102008...ace_153368.htm

Originally Posted by Rob D.

Mud-throwing aside, thanks for providing my laugh for the day. After starting off with "Try not to throw mud if you don't know the details," we get (in order):

• "I forget all the fine points of the suit ..."
  
• "I believe and they wanted it crossed ..."
  
• "but I do recall ... "
  
• "This was in one of the NY papers probably post of newsday."

Upon further review, maybe those nasty details aren't so important after all.

Again see above.

There did want it crossed, and the owner was a part owner in GAI, oh and it WAS in the NEW YORK POST.

So I guess all my details were not so far off and that there was basis for Forman to hold the card as he wanted a release signed so that there could be no suit again SGC.

My points were pretty damn on and for those who laughed read the article.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02102008...ace_153368.htm

James G

[Rob D.]

I know I'm blushing.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So someone should waive any claim a card was damaged as a condition of return of a submission? I see.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So someone should waive any claim a card was damaged as a condition of return of a submission? I see.

Peter,

Did you take the whole 5 seconds to read that article.

Haas wanted SGC to fix the card so that it would grade a 10 SGC refused, SGC asked for a release so that Haas would not be able to say that they damaged the card and that is why it isn't a 10.

I have never sent any compant a 300K card, so I don't know how it is handled, but this does not seem like an unreasonalbe request knowing that Hass felt the card should be fixed and should get the 10 grade.

Again I was pretty right on with my facts even though my first response was vague, guess next time I won't rush to post....

James G

[slidekellyslide]

James, why would Haas, an owner of a grading company himself expect another grading company to "fix" his card? Was he just nuts? Was he trying to sabotage SGC?

All of these companies have conflicts of interest (well I don't know much about the folks at Beckett), but SGC, PSA, and GAI all were/are owned by people still collecting and dealing cards. It's not just our industry, but AFA in the toy business has that same conflict of interest. Professional grading companies suck.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I doubt Joe Orlando would hold a card hostage for a release. Then again, I don't think anyone would ask Joe Orlando his opinion of whether a card could be fixed but still slabbed. Just my opinion.

[WarHoundR69]

Dave Forman is an owner - not an employee. Big difference, the statement does not apply to Dave Forman.

Now if it said all owners & employees I would buy it.

Plus add all Relatives - no matter how remote.

Edited to add comment re: Relatives

[slidekellyslide]

I remember that article now and really all it does is bring up more questions about SGC and Dave Forman. Why would a guy who owns a grading company send a card to SGC asking for it to be "fixed" so it will grade a 10? I hate to go all "Frank" on the forum, but IMO the grading companies all suck.