Mastro/Legendary Article in Today's NY Daily News

[Wesley]

James, Glyn worked for SGC, and he answered your first two questions in a post above. He said the SGC graders were actually harder on Dave's cards, not easier. How did the graders more heavily scrutinize Dave's cards, if they did not know they belonged to Dave?

[Rob D.]

There's an episode of The Twilight Zone ("The Monsters are due on Maple Street") in which aliens periodically turn the power on and off for only a few of the residents of a typical American neighborhood. The people, who have little information about what's going on and immediately have no explanation for what's happening, turn into a panicked mob as the accusations fly.

This board, sometimes, is that neighborhood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwoytBw5iIw

[tbob]

Those with long memories remember back on the Full Count Board (predecessor of Net 54) and in the early days when posters who inferred that collectors who were "good old boys" or "large quantity submitters" would get preferential treatment, would get lambasted. I remember one time posting that I believed that grading companies, despite their written policies, DID know who was submitting certain cards and although some agreed with me, many were outraged at the thought that the grading companies were ever anything other than 100% impartial. Flash forward 6 years and how many of you dissenters still think the grading companies are Ivory Snow businesses? Just wondering...

[tbob]

To me this is the bottom line:

Either SGC KNEW the cards submitted were Forman's (and depending on who you believe they were either tougher on his cards or he got a "good old boy" upgrade) or they did NOT know. That's the bottom line. Sure the Prez of SGC should have avoided even the appearance of impropriety but the bottom line is did the graders know they were his cards or not. Glyn who used to work there indicates they DID (although they graded his cards tougher), others say they had no idea whose cards were whose.
That's the bottom line.

Me, I am still trying to figure out which comic book would have sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially in the stagnant comic book market these days.

[oldjudge]

Bob-My guess is that when the average guy mails in a submission to SGC the graders probably don't know whose it is. When someone brings a few high grade cards in for immediate turnaround my guess is that they sometimes do know whose cards they are.
Is there preferential treatment--who knows. Certainly not for me or you.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Bob-My guess is that when the average guy mails in a submission to SGC the graders probably don't know whose it is. When someone brings a few high grade cards in for immediate turnaround my guess is that they sometimes do know whose cards they are.
Is there preferential treatment--who knows. Certainly not for me or you.

Jay's probably correct IMO. For example, when the infamous N167 was purchased on eBay and subsequently graded by SGC, I'm sure they knew who had purchased the card. An N167 Ewing doesn't come in every day. I'm not implying that SGC gave any preferential treatment, just that I agree with Jay that in some instances, the owner of a card is probably known.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by canjond

Jay's probably correct IMO. For example, when the infamous N167 was purchased on eBay and subsequently graded by SGC, I'm sure they knew who had purchased the card. An N167 Ewing doesn't come in every day. I'm not implying that SGC gave any preferential treatment, just that I agree with Jay that in some instances, the owner of a card is probably known.

I have to guess that SGC does know who some of the submitters of cards are, especially very rare ones, how could they possibly not? I can safely say that I don't know ANYONE, including myself, that has EVER gotten any preferential treatment with respect to a grade. SGC still has the best graders in the business, imo, and they will still get my business....not because they are a banner advertiser, but because they are the most consistent and best in the business. No doubt there have been questions raised that deserve some answers but the grading dept is as good as it gets...along with their ops dept.


I should add that I think my friends at Beckett do an outstanding job also......I have my fingers crossed on a JSA item they have of mine right now.....

[tothrk]

Originally Posted by tbob

To me this is the bottom line:

Either SGC KNEW the cards submitted were Forman's (and depending on who you believe they were either tougher on his cards or he got a "good old boy" upgrade) or they did NOT know. That's the bottom line. Sure the Prez of SGC should have avoided even the appearance of impropriety but the bottom line is did the graders know they were his cards or not. Glyn who used to work there indicates they DID (although they graded his cards tougher), others say they had no idea whose cards were whose.
That's the bottom line.

Me, I am still trying to figure out which comic book would have sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially in the stagnant comic book market these days.

Glyn outright told us they KNEW they were grading Dave's cards. Of course he is going to say they were tougher on them. Something is not right. Maybe he was just getting cards graded and that's it. In any event, I personally feel some submissions are not anonymous. Finally, I have plenty of comic books I will sell you for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tothrk

Glyn outright told us they KNEW they were grading Dave's cards. Of course he is going to say they were tougher on them. Something is not right. Maybe he was just getting cards graded and that's it. In any event, I personally feel some submissions are not anonymous. Finally, I have plenty of comic books I will sell you for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Do you have a #27 Detective Comics (1st appearance of Batman) in high grade? If so I might have a buyer for you

[tothrk]

Originally Posted by Leon

Do you have a #27 Detective Comics (1st appearance of Batman) in high grade? If so I might have a buyer for you

No, sorry. My comics are of the worthless variety, but I'm more than willing to sell them for hundreds of thousands of dollars

[spacktrack]

Please see the below statement from Sean Skeffington, VP of Operations for SGC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone,

We’ve been following the comments and questions on this issue closely, and while we cannot continue to address every question in this forum, we feel compelled to clarify a few issues.

Please understand that due to the nature of the dispute between Dave Forman and Mastro Auctions, we are not at liberty to make statements regarding the issue. What is important for us to communicate is that the dispute does not involve SGC as a company, and thus we cannot make any sort of statement, other than to express our hope that the two parties are able to resolve their differences.

However, in the course of the many online discussions, some questions about perceived inconsistencies in SGC’s company policies have come to light, and in the interest of transparency and trust, we feel compelled to comment.

First, in our continuing efforts to refine and improve our internal operations, SGC established a policy prohibiting any employee from submitting cards for grading. That policy was established in the second half of 2008. Prior to that, while there was no official company policy on the matter, it was a non-issue, since the number of cards submitted by employees was minimal. We established the policy on our own, to help eliminate the potential for impropriety.

Secondly, we feel it is important to note that as the owner of SGC, Dave Forman is not involved in the day-to-day operation of the company, and has never dictated grading policy or graded any cards submitted to SGC.

Lastly, as a grading company well-known for honoring its guarantee, we want to remind everyone that SGC continues to stand behind each and every card in an SGC holder. If, at any time, you feel that one of your cards is not accurately graded for whatever reason, we will be happy to review it for you at no charge, and as you all know, we have bought back misgraded cards in the past.

We feel that it is important to note that for the last 11 years, SGC has worked very hard to earn your trust and establish itself as the most knowledgeable, skilled grading company in the hobby. We are truly appreciative of the trust you have shown us, and we continue to work hard to earn that trust, every single day. While we understand many of the concerns that have been expressed here, we also ask you to remember that SGC still boasts the same commitment to accuracy, consistency, knowledge and customer service that you have all come to expect from us.

We appreciate your patience with our response. We also appreciate your understanding that due to the nature of this situation, we are not at liberty to discuss specifics regarding the dispute between Dave Forman and Mastro. If there are any additional questions that we can answer to help restore your confidence, please do not hesitate to call our offices.

Sincerely,

Sean Skeffington
VP of Operations

[Matt]

Originally Posted by spacktrack

Please see the below statement from Sean Skeffington, VP of Operations for SGC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone,

We’ve been following the comments and questions on this issue closely, and while we cannot continue to address every question in this forum, we feel compelled to clarify a few issues.

Please understand that due to the nature of the dispute between Dave Forman and Mastro Auctions, we are not at liberty to make statements regarding the issue. What is important for us to communicate is that the dispute does not involve SGC as a company, and thus we cannot make any sort of statement, other than to express our hope that the two parties are able to resolve their differences.

However, in the course of the many online discussions, some questions about perceived inconsistencies in SGC’s company policies have come to light, and in the interest of transparency and trust, we feel compelled to comment.

First, in our continuing efforts to refine and improve our internal operations, SGC established a policy prohibiting any employee from submitting cards for grading. That policy was established in the second half of 2008. Prior to that, while there was no official company policy on the matter, it was a non-issue, since the number of cards submitted by employees was minimal. We established the policy on our own, to help eliminate the potential for impropriety.

Secondly, we feel it is important to note that as the owner of SGC, Dave Forman is not involved in the day-to-day operation of the company, and has never dictated grading policy or graded any cards submitted to SGC.

Lastly, as a grading company well-known for honoring its guarantee, we want to remind everyone that SGC continues to stand behind each and every card in an SGC holder. If, at any time, you feel that one of your cards is not accurately graded for whatever reason, we will be happy to review it for you at no charge, and as you all know, we have bought back misgraded cards in the past.

We feel that it is important to note that for the last 11 years, SGC has worked very hard to earn your trust and establish itself as the most knowledgeable, skilled grading company in the hobby. We are truly appreciative of the trust you have shown us, and we continue to work hard to earn that trust, every single day. While we understand many of the concerns that have been expressed here, we also ask you to remember that SGC still boasts the same commitment to accuracy, consistency, knowledge and customer service that you have all come to expect from us.

We appreciate your patience with our response. We also appreciate your understanding that due to the nature of this situation, we are not at liberty to discuss specifics regarding the dispute between Dave Forman and Mastro. If there are any additional questions that we can answer to help restore your confidence, please do not hesitate to call our offices.

Sincerely,

Sean Skeffington
VP of Operations

Thank you for clarifying.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by spacktrack

Please see the below statement from Sean Skeffington, VP of Operations for SGC.

Secondly, we feel it is important to note that as the owner of SGC, Dave Forman is not involved in the day-to-day operation of the company, and has never dictated grading policy or graded any cards submitted to SGC.

Sean Skeffington
VP of Operations

This is what I have been trying to get out through out this thread and perhaps it was lost in the length of Sean's comments.

Dave does not impact any grading, he does not grade, therefore if you trust the graders then it is a non issue.

Peter, I am not saying I know any facts that is the problem, just because Glyn made one comment about the issue does not mean that all the facts have been presented. I assume we won't hear anything further from Glyn so as to avoid him opening up any other pandora boxes. I don't believe Glyn was doning anything else but commenting on his view of things and certainly was not trying to do harm although some may have turned it into that.

I agree there are a lot of other questions but since we don't even have the most basic facts
1) what did Dave have graded
2) did he sell cards he had graded
3) what he bought
4) what he sold

I don't see how anyone can come to the mind set that Dave and SGC did wrong.

As I said I will stand by SGC because even if a grader did happen to know a card was Dave's I don't think they would have acted any different and that is what I expect, want and pay for.

James G

[Peter_Spaeth]

Dave is still selling and buying cards on ebay, it appears.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback

[oldjudge]

Interesting that his grading company of choice is PSA. Who grades those Frasier DVDs?

[Mrc32]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dave is still selling and buying cards on ebay, it appears.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback

Is he upgrading those PSA graded cards by walking down the hall?

Ugh

[Jewish-collector]

Maybe Jeff can speak & take questions at the Net54 National dinner.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Maybe Jeff can speak & take questions at the Net54 National dinner.

I was hoping Doug would.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Mrc32

Is he upgrading those PSA graded cards by walking down the hall?

Ugh

I think the transactions pretty clearly show he is not. He is repeatedly selling PSA-graded cards in PSA holders (ie. NOT using his "influence" to get those cards slabbed with higher SGC grades).

I don't have nearly enough facts to want to get into this debate, but if this Ebay feedback does anything for me, it encourages me.

Cheers,
Blair

[botn]

The complaint filed by Mastro states that Forman amassed a staggering $805K in debt between 2006 and Aug 2008. Since Aug 2008 (the Dec 08 auction) Forman's net consignment proceeds were just over $569K according to the complaint. It does not give a complete list of the items making up the $805K in purchases nor does it identify all of the items Forman sold in auction totaling just over $569K but it does list the following 4 items:

T210 Jackson PSA Authentic (Lot 589 in the Dec 08 Auction)

T205 Cobb SGC 84 (Lot 718 in the Dec 08 Auction)

M110 Complete Set SGC graded (Lot 329 in the Dec 08 Auction)

49B Robinson SGC 98 (Lot 226 in the Dec 08 Auction)

The complaint also states that Forman had an unpaid $200K debt with Mastro Auctions in Aug 2007 at which time an agreement was made to extend him additional credit at 10% interest.

Don't know about you but if someone is unable to satisfy a debt for 200K what makes you think it is a great idea to extend the credit like to over $800K? The 10% interest was enough of an incentive? I don't buy that. There is more to this story then we are getting.

Greg

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dave is still selling and buying cards on ebay, it appears.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...ab=AllFeedback

Yes but everything he seems to have sold has been in a PSA holder.

It certainly is silly to have his name clearly on that id and to be buying cards with it certainly isn't the best looking thing but that doesn't mean he has done anything wrong per sa.


James G

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by Wesley

James, Glyn worked for SGC, and he answered your first two questions in a post above. He said the SGC graders were actually harder on Dave's cards, not easier. How did the graders more heavily scrutinize Dave's cards, if they did not know they belonged to Dave?

Wesley,

This is exactly my point, and is Glyn did work in customer service as Leon suggested then I am not sure how much involvement he would have.

Your assuming that person A brought cards into the grades and said oh these are Dave Formans cards so be harsh on them. I just don't buy it as I feel the graders stick to their guns and don't want to know who the cards belong to.

As I have said I have no facts, all you are going on is what Glyn said in a short statement and you have not asked how did Gyln know the graders knew they were Daves cards.

I don't think graders care whose cards are whose and they shouldn't grade the card for the card and not the owenr. I think they do that and that is enough for me until there are some FACTS that prove otherwise.

I am not closed minded but I am not jumping to a conclusion without any facts and I many are.

James G

[Peter_Spaeth]

This is hysterical, someone says they have no facts when we have a statement from an employee of SGC with no bias as he says only favorable things. Amazing. Tell us James, what is YOUR basis for saying Glyn doesn't know what he is talking about?