Mastro/Legendary Article in Today's NY Daily News

[tbob]

To me this is the bottom line:

Either SGC KNEW the cards submitted were Forman's (and depending on who you believe they were either tougher on his cards or he got a "good old boy" upgrade) or they did NOT know. That's the bottom line. Sure the Prez of SGC should have avoided even the appearance of impropriety but the bottom line is did the graders know they were his cards or not. Glyn who used to work there indicates they DID (although they graded his cards tougher), others say they had no idea whose cards were whose.
That's the bottom line.

Me, I am still trying to figure out which comic book would have sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially in the stagnant comic book market these days.

[oldjudge]

Bob-My guess is that when the average guy mails in a submission to SGC the graders probably don't know whose it is. When someone brings a few high grade cards in for immediate turnaround my guess is that they sometimes do know whose cards they are.
Is there preferential treatment--who knows. Certainly not for me or you.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Bob-My guess is that when the average guy mails in a submission to SGC the graders probably don't know whose it is. When someone brings a few high grade cards in for immediate turnaround my guess is that they sometimes do know whose cards they are.
Is there preferential treatment--who knows. Certainly not for me or you.

Jay's probably correct IMO. For example, when the infamous N167 was purchased on eBay and subsequently graded by SGC, I'm sure they knew who had purchased the card. An N167 Ewing doesn't come in every day. I'm not implying that SGC gave any preferential treatment, just that I agree with Jay that in some instances, the owner of a card is probably known.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by canjond

Jay's probably correct IMO. For example, when the infamous N167 was purchased on eBay and subsequently graded by SGC, I'm sure they knew who had purchased the card. An N167 Ewing doesn't come in every day. I'm not implying that SGC gave any preferential treatment, just that I agree with Jay that in some instances, the owner of a card is probably known.

I have to guess that SGC does know who some of the submitters of cards are, especially very rare ones, how could they possibly not? I can safely say that I don't know ANYONE, including myself, that has EVER gotten any preferential treatment with respect to a grade. SGC still has the best graders in the business, imo, and they will still get my business....not because they are a banner advertiser, but because they are the most consistent and best in the business. No doubt there have been questions raised that deserve some answers but the grading dept is as good as it gets...along with their ops dept.


I should add that I think my friends at Beckett do an outstanding job also......I have my fingers crossed on a JSA item they have of mine right now.....

[tothrk]

Originally Posted by tbob

To me this is the bottom line:

Either SGC KNEW the cards submitted were Forman's (and depending on who you believe they were either tougher on his cards or he got a "good old boy" upgrade) or they did NOT know. That's the bottom line. Sure the Prez of SGC should have avoided even the appearance of impropriety but the bottom line is did the graders know they were his cards or not. Glyn who used to work there indicates they DID (although they graded his cards tougher), others say they had no idea whose cards were whose.
That's the bottom line.

Me, I am still trying to figure out which comic book would have sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially in the stagnant comic book market these days.

Glyn outright told us they KNEW they were grading Dave's cards. Of course he is going to say they were tougher on them. Something is not right. Maybe he was just getting cards graded and that's it. In any event, I personally feel some submissions are not anonymous. Finally, I have plenty of comic books I will sell you for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tothrk

Glyn outright told us they KNEW they were grading Dave's cards. Of course he is going to say they were tougher on them. Something is not right. Maybe he was just getting cards graded and that's it. In any event, I personally feel some submissions are not anonymous. Finally, I have plenty of comic books I will sell you for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Do you have a #27 Detective Comics (1st appearance of Batman) in high grade? If so I might have a buyer for you

[tothrk]

Originally Posted by Leon

Do you have a #27 Detective Comics (1st appearance of Batman) in high grade? If so I might have a buyer for you

No, sorry. My comics are of the worthless variety, but I'm more than willing to sell them for hundreds of thousands of dollars

[mcap100176]

What if a grader for any company wanted their cards graded, then they can't submit to their own company?

What would the fallout be if Foreman bought some raw cards and sent them to PSA?

I fully understand and respect the appearance of possible favoritism or impropriety but I have to assume that the graders are collectors also.

I don't have a problem with any grading company grades employee cards.....as long as the cards are graded the same as everything else submitted...not graded harder or with a closer inspection, not easier....just the same as everyone else.

Out of all of this, the most annoying item was someone's cards were graded at a different standard.

Place in the label that it was "So And So's Card from their personal collection" to be completely open if that card ever hit the open market.

[spacktrack]

Please see the below statement from Sean Skeffington, VP of Operations for SGC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone,

We’ve been following the comments and questions on this issue closely, and while we cannot continue to address every question in this forum, we feel compelled to clarify a few issues.

Please understand that due to the nature of the dispute between Dave Forman and Mastro Auctions, we are not at liberty to make statements regarding the issue. What is important for us to communicate is that the dispute does not involve SGC as a company, and thus we cannot make any sort of statement, other than to express our hope that the two parties are able to resolve their differences.

However, in the course of the many online discussions, some questions about perceived inconsistencies in SGC’s company policies have come to light, and in the interest of transparency and trust, we feel compelled to comment.

First, in our continuing efforts to refine and improve our internal operations, SGC established a policy prohibiting any employee from submitting cards for grading. That policy was established in the second half of 2008. Prior to that, while there was no official company policy on the matter, it was a non-issue, since the number of cards submitted by employees was minimal. We established the policy on our own, to help eliminate the potential for impropriety.

Secondly, we feel it is important to note that as the owner of SGC, Dave Forman is not involved in the day-to-day operation of the company, and has never dictated grading policy or graded any cards submitted to SGC.

Lastly, as a grading company well-known for honoring its guarantee, we want to remind everyone that SGC continues to stand behind each and every card in an SGC holder. If, at any time, you feel that one of your cards is not accurately graded for whatever reason, we will be happy to review it for you at no charge, and as you all know, we have bought back misgraded cards in the past.

We feel that it is important to note that for the last 11 years, SGC has worked very hard to earn your trust and establish itself as the most knowledgeable, skilled grading company in the hobby. We are truly appreciative of the trust you have shown us, and we continue to work hard to earn that trust, every single day. While we understand many of the concerns that have been expressed here, we also ask you to remember that SGC still boasts the same commitment to accuracy, consistency, knowledge and customer service that you have all come to expect from us.

We appreciate your patience with our response. We also appreciate your understanding that due to the nature of this situation, we are not at liberty to discuss specifics regarding the dispute between Dave Forman and Mastro. If there are any additional questions that we can answer to help restore your confidence, please do not hesitate to call our offices.

Sincerely,

Sean Skeffington
VP of Operations

[Matt]

Originally Posted by spacktrack

Please see the below statement from Sean Skeffington, VP of Operations for SGC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone,

We’ve been following the comments and questions on this issue closely, and while we cannot continue to address every question in this forum, we feel compelled to clarify a few issues.

Please understand that due to the nature of the dispute between Dave Forman and Mastro Auctions, we are not at liberty to make statements regarding the issue. What is important for us to communicate is that the dispute does not involve SGC as a company, and thus we cannot make any sort of statement, other than to express our hope that the two parties are able to resolve their differences.

However, in the course of the many online discussions, some questions about perceived inconsistencies in SGC’s company policies have come to light, and in the interest of transparency and trust, we feel compelled to comment.

First, in our continuing efforts to refine and improve our internal operations, SGC established a policy prohibiting any employee from submitting cards for grading. That policy was established in the second half of 2008. Prior to that, while there was no official company policy on the matter, it was a non-issue, since the number of cards submitted by employees was minimal. We established the policy on our own, to help eliminate the potential for impropriety.

Secondly, we feel it is important to note that as the owner of SGC, Dave Forman is not involved in the day-to-day operation of the company, and has never dictated grading policy or graded any cards submitted to SGC.

Lastly, as a grading company well-known for honoring its guarantee, we want to remind everyone that SGC continues to stand behind each and every card in an SGC holder. If, at any time, you feel that one of your cards is not accurately graded for whatever reason, we will be happy to review it for you at no charge, and as you all know, we have bought back misgraded cards in the past.

We feel that it is important to note that for the last 11 years, SGC has worked very hard to earn your trust and establish itself as the most knowledgeable, skilled grading company in the hobby. We are truly appreciative of the trust you have shown us, and we continue to work hard to earn that trust, every single day. While we understand many of the concerns that have been expressed here, we also ask you to remember that SGC still boasts the same commitment to accuracy, consistency, knowledge and customer service that you have all come to expect from us.

We appreciate your patience with our response. We also appreciate your understanding that due to the nature of this situation, we are not at liberty to discuss specifics regarding the dispute between Dave Forman and Mastro. If there are any additional questions that we can answer to help restore your confidence, please do not hesitate to call our offices.

Sincerely,

Sean Skeffington
VP of Operations

Thank you for clarifying.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As long as I am playing the ass**le cynic in Jeff's absence ()
1. If there was no issue then why change the policy?
2. Does the policy apply to family members?
3. I also note that Sean does not dispute anything Glyn said.

[Wesley]

Thanks Sean and Brian for the clarification. I am not cynical like the East Coast guys, but here are other questions that can be raised:

1. How many cards did SGC grade on behalf of David Forman from the time he took over the company until one year ago?

2. Is there any way to identify cards graded on behalf of SGC owners or SGC personnel?

3. Did the graders know that they were scrutinizing cards that belonged to their coworkers in the next cubical?

4. Did SGC owners and SGC personnel have to fill out submittal forms and place cards in CardSaver I's?

[tbob]

and (to add to Wesley's list):

5) Were cards owned by Forman's brother (who is reported here to be a seller of cards) graded by SGC?
6) Did the graders know that these were his brother's cards before grading (a follow-up on Glyn's comment)?

As to the issue of the actual graders at SGC, I have (like others) disagreed on occasional grades received in the past but have always found the guys who grade to be top-notch and very cordial when I have met them at the National.

[JamesGallo]

Originally Posted by spacktrack

Please see the below statement from Sean Skeffington, VP of Operations for SGC.

Secondly, we feel it is important to note that as the owner of SGC, Dave Forman is not involved in the day-to-day operation of the company, and has never dictated grading policy or graded any cards submitted to SGC.

Sean Skeffington
VP of Operations

This is what I have been trying to get out through out this thread and perhaps it was lost in the length of Sean's comments.

Dave does not impact any grading, he does not grade, therefore if you trust the graders then it is a non issue.

Peter, I am not saying I know any facts that is the problem, just because Glyn made one comment about the issue does not mean that all the facts have been presented. I assume we won't hear anything further from Glyn so as to avoid him opening up any other pandora boxes. I don't believe Glyn was doning anything else but commenting on his view of things and certainly was not trying to do harm although some may have turned it into that.

I agree there are a lot of other questions but since we don't even have the most basic facts
1) what did Dave have graded
2) did he sell cards he had graded
3) what he bought
4) what he sold

I don't see how anyone can come to the mind set that Dave and SGC did wrong.

As I said I will stand by SGC because even if a grader did happen to know a card was Dave's I don't think they would have acted any different and that is what I expect, want and pay for.

James G

[Peter_Spaeth]

Depending on the level of detail in the Complaint, we MAY know soon at least what lots Dave purchased that he didn't pay for. I doubt we will ever know what he sold, or what he had graded, or the true extent of what he bought.

To me, creating the appearance of impropriety, even if there wasn't any actual impropriety, is sin enough, particularly in this business. I am sure others will share that view and others like yourself will not, which is fine.