So...auction house endings....

barrysloate · #1 05-04-2009, 12:44 PM

Tim- agreed, it would cause a major logjam at the end. But ebay has done it since its inception, and it has worked fine. I know, however, that bidders would lose some flexibility and not be able to jump from lot to lot.

There needs to be a way to disqualify bidders who don't even start to bid until 3:00 AM. Maybe a rule that if you haven't placed any new bids between 4:00 PM and midnight you cannot bid after midnight. Anything to force them to start earlier would be a better system.

Matt · #2 05-04-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

There needs to be a way to disqualify bidders who don't even start to bid until 3:00 AM. Maybe a rule that if you haven't placed any new bids between 4:00 PM and midnight you cannot bid after midnight. Anything to force them to start earlier would be a better system.

Barry - interesting idea - might I suggest one modification - consider a bidder who is winning a few lots for days and only gets outbid at 3 AM - should he not be allowed to move his money elsewhere (or respond)? So just modify your rule:

If you have not been in the lead on at least one lot between 4:00 PM and midnight you cannot bid after midnight.

Abravefan11 · #3 05-04-2009, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

So just modify your rule:

If you have not been in the lead on a lot between 4:00 PM and midnight you cannot bid after midnight.

Matt, that's close but I think you're still penalizing the person that doesn't want to risk winning more than he can afford. If he is winning a large lot, he can't yet bid on another lot until he is outbid on the current one.

How about this rule?

Once extended bidding has begun if you haven't been high bidder on a lot for more than an hour you will be disqualified from bidding.

That would encourage everyone to actively participate. Once you receive your outbid notice you have an hour to regroup and secure another high bid on the same lot or another you are eligible to bid on.

Matt · #4 05-04-2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Matt, that's close but I think you're still penalizing the person that doesn't want to risk winning more than he can afford. If he is winning a large lot, he can't yet bid on another lot until he is outbid on the current one.

I'm not sure I understand - so long as he was up on ANY lot from 4-12 he can continue bidding on any of his qualified lots after 12. How is he being penalized?

Abravefan11 · #5 05-04-2009, 01:08 PM

Sorry Matt I misunderstood. I thought you were saying you had to be in the lead on a given lot, not just any lot, to bid on it after midnight.

We're thinking along the same lines.

Matt · #6 05-04-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Sorry Matt I misunderstood. I thought you were saying you had to be in the lead on a given lot, not just any lot, to bid on it after midnight.

We're thinking along the same lines.

I initially worded it poorly (sorry) which is what you read - I cleared it up to avoid confusion.

So here's the suggested auction ending pattern:
1) At 4 PM the auction enters Extended Bidding - after 4 PM you may only bids on lots you have bid on prior to that time (same as existing rule).
2) After Midnight the auction enters the Closing Phase. If you were high bidder on at least one lot during the extended bidding session from 4-12, you may bid after midnight on any of your qualified lots.

That might just work...

Abravefan11 · #7 05-04-2009, 01:28 PM

The only difference (I think) between what you're saying and what I'm thinking is under your rules if I am winning a lot at 4pm when the auction goes into extended bidding, or become the high bidder just after 4pm on any lot, I don't have to do anything further until midnight and would be eligible to bid on all of the lots I qualified for.

My thinking is you have to maintain a high bid within the extended bidding process. You can't go dormant with no high bid for hours and hours and sneak in at the end. You could set the window for example at 1 hour. Once extended bidding has begun you can not go more than 1 hour without being the high bidder on one of your qualifying lots or you will be disqualified from bidding.

This would encourage active bidding. Does it make sense?

barrysloate · #8 05-04-2009, 02:37 PM

Matt- anything that would compel someone to bid earlier is worth considering.

Keep in mind that in an auction such as REA, it's not the clock that keeps bidders from bidding but the amount of the lot. I was speaking to the winner of the 1933 George C. Miller set and he said that he thought he had won the lot at 3:00 AM as there had not been any bidding for a few hours. Then at 3:00 AM a very serious bidder jumped in and all the real action took place.

Why? What was gained by waiting that long? The same outcome could have been resolved at 8:00 PM, 10:00 PM, or at any time really. The bottom line is bidding ceased because the lot hit its max. Maybe bidders hope that at 3:00 AM their competition is asleep; but if that is the case, then the auction is all about who can stay up the latest. And even Rob writes somewhere in his rules that that is not what he wants. Again, the system needs some fine tuning.