Current state of the hobby-Modern cards

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I'm seeing tons of kids at shows. Sure many are trying to hustle for a buck. But it's no different than when I was a kid checking every Beckett for up arrows.

Well it's sure as hell different than when I was a kid. We never thought about values. We just opened the packs, dropped the wrappers where we stood, stuffed the gum in our mouths, looked to see who we got in each pack, shoved the cards into our pant pocket and then eventually flung them gaily at brick walls in winner takes all games.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Kids care about card values. It's natural.

I disagree. That's learned behaviour which has come about in the last 35-40 years or so.

[Kutcher55]

As others have said, part of it is increased popularity of pokeyman and all that garbage. Also more kids wheeling and dealing trying to make a buck. Vintage prices seem steady, although perhaps some recent moderate lift in blue-chip cards? I haven't tried to sell anything substantial in many months. On the buy side, prices seem pretty flat.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

As others have said, part of it is increased popularity of pokeyman and all that garbage.

But any and all cards were considered just garbage back in the day! That's why almost all were roughly handled and then eventually pitched out in the garbage. And the very fact that they were nothing but cheap kid stuff when issued is what gives them charm today.

What troubles me about the TCG cards issued since the mid-1990's is that they weren't considered absolute garbage when issued. Everybody including kids knew about card values by then. As a result there's not been much of a destruction factor. The rarities these days are therefore the manufactured rarities which I consider to be "artificial" somehow.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

But any and all cards were considered just garbage back in the day! That's why almost all were roughly handled and then eventually pitched out in the garbage. And the very fact that they were nothing but cheap kid stuff when issued is what gives them charm today.

What troubles me about the TCG cards issued since the mid-1990's is that they weren't considered absolute garbage when issued. Everybody including kids knew about card values by then. As a result there's not been much of a destruction factor. The rarities these days are therefore the manufactured rarities which I consider to be "artificial" somehow.

Yes, but many people actually, ahem, USED or still use those TCG cards in games so there is not quite the same level of protection for many of those as there are for sports cards.

[1952boyntoncollector]

i notice that the chase cards for modern that go for 10-50 bucks for the current year people bid on ebay on but the next year they drop and keep dropping besides the ohtanis and witts....on to the next year chase.

in the old sets we all loved every card in a set...now its just certain subsets...the level of love is much thinner..i just dont see 18 year olds today paying big money to build these subsets in their 40s and older when they have more money

i do see that with pokemom cards that are played with and certain cards to them are like the 1950s mantles that we couldnt afford in are youth but some of us can and do pay. I can see certain pokemon cards that are $ 1000 or so now to buy that kids cant afford but will be paying much more than than 30 years later as they are cards of their youth and lore that that were playing with and not just chasing for a sub set for one year than on to the next

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i notice that the chase cards for modern that go for 10-50 bucks for the current year people bid on ebay on but the next year they drop and keep dropping besides the ohtanis and witts....on to the next year chase.

I've noticed precisely that phenomenon as well. It's actually been that way for thirty years.

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

in the old sets we all loved every card in a set...now its just certain subsets...the level of love is much thinner.

Truth!

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

i do see that with pokemom cards that are played with and certain cards to them are like the 1950s mantles that we couldnt afford in are youth but some of us can and do pay. I can see certain pokemon cards that are $ 1000 or so now to buy that kids cant afford but will be paying much more than than 30 years later as they are cards of their youth and lore that that were playing with and not just chasing for a sub set for one year than on to the next

You're very correct. Pokemon cards continue to be a sensation with kids. As nostalgia sets in with these former kids in decades to come, they'll eagerly ante up for the cards that they once had as well as the ones they merely coveted. It's therefore a mistake to dismiss Pokemon cards as a legitimate and potentially very pricey collectible.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Well it's sure as hell different than when I was a kid. We never thought about values. We just opened the packs, dropped the wrappers where we stood, stuffed the gum in our mouths, looked to see who we got in each pack, shoved the cards into our pant pocket and then eventually flung them gaily at brick walls in winner takes all games.



I disagree. That's learned behaviour which has come about in the last 35-40 years or so.

I disagree. Human beings are born coveteous. The desire to have more than others has been passed down from Adam. You don't have to teach a kid to want the most valuable thing. Just because you didn't care about values of baseball cards doesn't mean no one did. I promise you kids interested in card values pre-dates your life. As soon as cards were traded for value, some kid cared about that value. Like I said, it's human nature. You just didn't realize they had value.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Human beings are born coveteous. The desire to have more than others has been passed down from Adam. You don't have to teach a kid to want the most valuable thing.... Like I said, it's human nature.

Yes on those points I agree.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Just because you didn't care about values of baseball cards doesn't mean no one did.

Why would anybody have cared about the "value" of the bubble gum cards we kids were buying from 1959-65 when they had no value at the time?

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

As soon as cards were traded for value, some kid cared about that value.

True. But that didn't happen until many years after I stopped buying cards as a kid.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

I promise you kids interested in card values pre-dates your life.

I was born in early April 1952. While some adult somewhere may have been willing to pay a few dollars for certain select tobacco cards prior to that, I'd be very surprised if you could identify any kid at the time aware of any of these cards.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

You just didn't realize they had value.

Those cards had no value because they had no value at the time! You can't transpose future values back into the past. That's a mistake. Any market participant will tell you timing is everything.

I was simply making the point that my/our experience back in the day was very much different than the experience/behaviour of present day kids (or kids since the late 1980's). We happily bought and collected bubble gum cards with no thought as to their value (primarily because there was no value). We did it simply because we liked baseball and the cards looked, smelled and felt cool. You can't say that my statement was incorrect because we would have paid attention to the value had there been any. We simply didn't. I said only that. Case closed.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Yes on those points I agree.



Why would anybody have cared about the "value" of the bubble gum cards we kids were buying from 1959-65 when they had no value at the time?



True. But that didn't happen until many years after I stopped buying cards as a kid.



I was born in early April 1952. While some adult somewhere may have been willing to pay a few dollars for certain select tobacco cards prior to that, I'd be very surprised if you could identify any kid at the time aware of any of these cards.



Those cards had no value because they had no value at the time! You can't transpose future values back into the past. That's a mistake. Any market participant will tell you timing is everything.

I was simply making the point that my/our experience back in the day was very much different than the experience/behaviour of present day kids (or kids since the late 1980's). We happily bought and collected bubble gum cards with no thought as to their value (primarily because there was no value). We did it simply because we liked baseball and the cards looked, smelled and felt cool. You can't say that my statement was incorrect because we would have paid attention to the value had there been any. We simply didn't. I said only that. Case closed.

Cards most certainly had value in the 50s and 60s. That's a fallacy. Cards had value in the 10s and 20s. This idea that cards didn't have value back then is a recent allegation, not supported by facts. It's usually people who were kids at the time who were oblivious to that value. Kids today just have much more awareness of it. In the 80s, beckett published a massively popular magazine with prices that every kid had. Now, kids hold the internet in their pockets. They have more information than you did in the 50s. But again, you not being aware of something doesn't make it not real. But make no mistake, cards had value in the 50s. And had you been aware of it, you would have cared just the same as kids today.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

It's usually people who were kids at the time who were oblivious to that value.

That concession is sufficient to prove my point. Our childhood collecting behaviour back when I was a kid in grade school in 1958-65 was very much different than the collecting behaviour of kids these days.

You're arguing that our behaviour would have been different had we known about values. Maybe so. But that's beside the point I was making.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

That concession is sufficient to prove my point. Our childhood collecting behaviour back when I was a kid in grade school in 1958-65 was very much different than the collecting behaviour of kids these days.

You're arguing that our behaviour would have been different had we known about values. Maybe so. But that's beside the point I was making.

You missed my point. YOU may not have known cards could have value, but you aren't representative of every kid. Your experience does not prove there weren't kids who cared about the value of their cards in the 50s. It was certainly a smaller market than today. But that's because the world was a smaller place. Not because the market didn't exist.

[1952boyntoncollector]

the value for a lot of these cards as kids was in trade to each other..

you really think many of these movie cards have much value..yeah there will be a website selling some but usually unopened packs...but kids in the past really loved their baseball cards and enjoyed the stats and watching the players every day etc and have grown up and can afford to buy cards of the past... .movies come and go i am going to assume howard the duck raw cards dont have the same 'value' back then or now.. card were treated differently past v present.