SUBJECT: BEWARE Steve Verkman, Keith Vari, Leland’s, Clean Sweep & Paragon auctions

[bbcard1]

Let me attempt to translate and I speak misconstrued emails, partial communications, and knee jerk reactions fairly fluently.

I believe the buyer will receive the full amount to the sale plus sixty percent of the hammer fee but will be assessed some unspecified fee for the the labor involved or for some lower priced lots...

I believe in general terms if an item sold for $1000 and the hammer fee was $200, the consignor would get $1120 but may be assessed an undetermined fee.

I think the fact that two auctionhouses showed up with trucks didn't help a lot. I can see the wisdom of it as big collections need a lot of outlets and some things would fit better with Lelands while others would fit better with CSA. This could have been allayed with better up-front communications, preferably in writing, which may or may not have happened.

I suspect if they had just shown up and offered 100% of the hammer fee and arranged for pick up later, everyone would have been happy.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Let me attempt to translate and I speak misconstrued emails, partial communications, and knee jerk reactions fairly fluently.

I believe the buyer will receive the full amount to the sale plus sixty percent of the hammer fee but will be assessed some unspecified fee for the the labor involved or for some lower priced lots...

I believe in general terms if an item sold for $1000 and the hammer fee was $200, the consignor would get $1120 but may be assessed an undetermined fee.

I think the fact that two auctionhouses showed up with trucks didn't help a lot. I can see the wisdom of it as big collections need a lot of outlets and some things would fit better with Lelands while others would fit better with CSA. This could have been allayed with better up-front communications, preferably in writing, which may or may not have happened.

I suspect if they had just shown up and offered 100% of the hammer fee and arranged for pick up later, everyone would have been happy.

Agreed. Numbers aside, the pickup was sloppy. Give the guy a couple days heads up to look through and enjoy his collection one last time.

[egri]

Originally Posted by ocjack

I'm late to the party, but in a quick review of the postings, I don't see anywhere that Steve Verkman actually commented on the transaction. Just a lot of "I spoke to Steve..." and "Steve told me..." comments.

Is there a reason Steve doesn't come on and explain the transaction himself? Wouldn't that be better than alot of heresay evidence? If I missed Steve's comments, I'm sorry. But short of that, it appears - to my mind - that he may not want to be on the record with any comments.

Just my 2cents.

There is this message Steve sent to Leon to post at the beginning of the thread:

Originally Posted by Leon

Steve Verkman is out of pocket and asked me to post this for him. I am cutting and pasting....thanks


Hi Leon,

Can you please post this for me:

"This post is not accurate. With very large collections that involve hundreds and hundreds of lots and photographs, we do have to charge an extra fee.

The labor involved in this is extremely extensive and we take care to break these collections up over hundreds of lots to maximize the value for our consignors.

Mr. Borozny will get 60% of the buyer's premium, this was explained to him over the phone.

We explained to Mr. Borozny at the time how much work would be involved in this collection, that literally a team of people would be working on it, so we will have to charge for that.

We have never and would never take advantage of someone. The amount of work going carefully through a collection of this size, with most items not organized or authenticated, is a massive endeavor.


Thanks much - Steve Verkman"






.

Other than that and OP’s two posts, there hasn’t been anything else from either of the two principals.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by egri

There is this message Steve sent to Leon to post at the beginning of the thread:



Other than that and OP’s two posts, there hasn’t been anything else from either of the two principals.

But that hasn't deterred us from creating an additional 200+ posts filled with speculation and opinion.

[BobbyStrawberry]

So is OP being charged interest on the advance or not?

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

So is OP being charged interest on the advance or not?

FINALLY...some levity to lighten things up...

PEACE!

[egri]

Originally Posted by Mark17

But that hasn't deterred us from creating an additional 200+ posts filled with speculation and opinion.

‘Twas ever thus.

[sflayank]

the way it reads and the response sounds like the op would end up with $720 not $1120
if 1120 hes doing great if 720 hes being robbed
the op would not be complaining if hes getting 1120 on 1000

[Jewish-collector]

So, if it sells for $100,000 how much does he get ?

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by sflayank

the way it reads and the response sounds like the op would end up with $720 not $1120
if 1120 hes doing great if 720 hes being robbed
the op would not be complaining if hes getting 1120 on 1000

I think he was being proposed was not well explained or else not well understood.

[gunboat82]

The contract is not very detailed, so I can understand the consignor's confusion. In the first column, under "Schedule A: The Property > Description," it just says:

MASS CONSIGNMENT BETWEEN LELANDS/CLEAN SWEEP AUCTIONS
60% CONSIGNOR 40% AUCTION HOUSE
CASH ADVANCE $15,000
NO ADDITIONAL FEES
60/40 SPLIT [illegible] AUTH.

In the second column, under "Seller Reserve," it just says what appears to be:

60/40 SPLIT
40% LELANDS

[G1911]

Now it makes sense why the rebuttal was incredibly vague about how the OP is untrue and the only specific was about a phone call and not the contract.

The contract sure seems to give the cosigner only 60%. I don't see the BP mentioned at all, but maybe that relates to the sellers reserve column. I don't know why, but I expected a vaguely professional real contract for a six figure plus deal. OP's claims seem to be on the main points factually correct.

Hard to see 60% (possibly even lower in reality with the vague or non-existent BP references in this 'contract') being fair and reasonable. If they did indeed cherry pick only the good items as OP said, and thus are not doing a ton of work with low value stuff to get rid of, OP has been bent over.

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by G1911

Now it makes sense why the rebuttal was incredibly vague about how the OP is untrue and the only specific was about a phone call and not the contract.

The contract sure seems to give the cosigner only 60%. I don't see the BP mentioned at all, but maybe that relates to the sellers reserve column. I don't know why, but I expected a vaguely professional real contract for a six figure plus deal. OP's claims seem to be on the main points factually correct.

Hard to see 60% (possibly even lower in reality with the vague or non-existent BP references in this 'contract') being fair and reasonable. If they did indeed cherry pick only the good items as OP said, and thus are not doing a ton of work with low value stuff to get rid of, OP has been bent over.

Also stated that the cost of authentication will be shared with the consignor… important to note is that not everything was taken and the collection was cherry picked… seems like a pretty hefty consignment fee to pay for only the good stuff.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

Also stated that the cost of authentication will be shared with the consignor… important to note is that not everything was taken and the collection was cherry picked… seems like a pretty hefty consignment fee to pay for only the good stuff.

Maybe cherry picked because it would not all fit on the two trucks and auctioning the better valued items first would be a great help to the consignor who was looking for cash. Sure, the auction house benefits as well but since a $15K advance was given in good faith, they would certainly want to recoup that as quickly as possible. Any business would want to do that.

Obviously, just a guess but the consignor did not state that they were not eventually taking all they committed to, just that they cherry picked on the initial load.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

Also stated that the cost of authentication will be shared with the consignor… important to note is that not everything was taken and the collection was cherry picked… seems like a pretty hefty consignment fee to pay for only the good stuff.

It's still pretty unclear exactly what was taken. The OP said not everything was taken and the collection was cherry picked, but he never really said how much was taken or how much of the 2 trucks that showed up were filled. There's a lot of unknowns still, and the OP hasn't bothered to come back and answer any of the questions or provide any more information about exactly what was taken.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

Also stated that the cost of authentication will be shared with the consignor… important to note is that not everything was taken and the collection was cherry picked… seems like a pretty hefty consignment fee to pay for only the good stuff.

I think the contract indicates authentication would be on their dime with the "No additional fees", but this contract is so... poorly written that its difficult to be certain of much.





The OP proved some of his claims by producing the contract, but other claims by him and his surrogates need to be proven, like this cherry picking claim and the 16% interest bill. IF these are true, they are easy to actually prove - there is an inventory list and there is a bill which can be produced to prove. The OP made a poor decision to sign a contract of what appears to be of his own free will at the time, and was wrong about the BP split (that part is understandable, seeing this vague contract and its unprofessional back of the napkin phrasing).

The other side has responded only with a vague statement that specifically only denies the BP split (on which they appear to be correct from the odd contract), delivered via a proxy who then moved the thread to the watercooler to lessen visibility and then made a provably false claim that a history of doing this with things that might end up not reflecting well on Lelands is' made up crap'. Unusual response if there is nothing to see here, but the burden of proof rests on he who makes the claim. IF the collection was cherry picked for only the high value items, then 60/40 is absurd and IF he is getting billed for ridiculous 16% interest rates with a contract that mentions no interest rates at all, then Lelands is horribly in the wrong, but that's not proven. OP has shown evidence for half the claims, but should prove the other half or they do not have much of any validity.

[rand1com]

What you see pictured here IS the contract in my opinion.

It is pretty clear that the consignor gets 60% of the hammer and additionally 60% of the buyer premium based on Steve's note.

So, if the hammer is $100K, he gets $72K minus his 60% of the authentication fees which could be substantial.

I doubt any other auction house would have done any better on the cut based on what is likely a very unorganized collection with little authentication and hundreds of hours of work involved.

Ebay takes 12.35% with the seller doing all of the work.

Sure, you give an auction house 5 items worth $100K they will be happy to give you the hammer and half of the BP as they make $10K for a few hours of work. Do that 100 times equals a million dollar take for probably less time than this collection will take to process and sell.

I know Steve Verkman well and he has always been very fair in my dealings with him.

You would have to know the actual volume and contents of the collection to make an intelligent evaluation of what is a fair deal to the consignor.

If you offered to sell outright a collection like this one that was worth $100K on the back end to any auction house, you would be very fortunate to get $50K for it. He will do much better in this scenario.

There truly are two sides to every story and we have almost no information on either of them but Steve has been in this hobby for 35 years or so and has a record to stand on that I trust based on 30+ years of experience dealing with him.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by rand1com

What you see pictured here IS the contract in my opinion.

It is pretty clear that the consignor gets 60% of the hammer and additionally 60% of the buyer premium based on Steve's note.

So, if the hammer is $100K, he gets $72K minus his 60% of the authentication fees which could be substantial.

I doubt any other auction house would have done any better on the cut based on what is likely a very unorganized collection with little authentication and hundreds of hours of work involved.

Ebay takes 12.35% with the seller doing all of the work.

Sure, you give an auction house 5 items worth $100K they will be happy to give you the hammer and half of the BP as they make $10K for a few hours of work. Do that 100 times equals a million dollar take for probably less time than this collection will take to process and sell.

I know Steve Verkman well and he has always been very fair in my dealings with him.

You would have to know the actual volume and contents of the collection to make an intelligent evaluation of what is a fair deal to the consignor.

If you offered to sell outright a collection like this one that was worth $100K on the back end to any auction house, you would be very fortunate to get $50K for it. He will do much better in this scenario.

There truly are two sides to every story and we have almost no information on either of them but Steve has been in this hobby for 35 years or so and has a record to stand on that I trust based on 30+ years of experience dealing with him.

The contract says no additional fees so if there are significant costs for grading or authentication, those apparently are being paid from the 40% that the auction house is getting which does make the fee seem more reasonable.

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by jayshum

The contract says no additional fees so if there are significant costs for grading or authentication, those apparently are being paid from the 40% that the auction house is getting which does make the fee seem more reasonable.

Last line on the contract appears to state 60/40 split on authentication which likely means the same ratio for that expense as on the final take. At least, that is how I interpreted that line.

I doubt very seriously the AH is covering all of the authentication fees.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Last line on the contract appears to state 60/40 split on authentication which likely means the same ratio for that expense as on the final take. At least, that is how I interpreted that line.

I doubt very seriously the AH is covering all of the authentication fees.

You're right. I missed that.

[Luke]

Based on Steve's response via Leon, it looks to me like the consignor gets 60% of the total sale (hammer plus BP) and the AH gets 40%. In a vacuum, if the collection really took 2 trucks to haul away, I agree with Steve that that sounds like a massive amount of work (and payroll for his employees) to go through and scan and list. That's just looking at the monetary part.

It would be interesting to hear from other AH owners on how they structure taking a massive collection that is going to take them tons of hours to bring to market.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I would be more worried that the contract doesn't detail what was taken. I am not casting aspersions, I have no reason to believe that anyone is being dishonest, but we advise our clients to make sure that their contract is itemized to a degree that they feel protected.

As for the 60/40 split. I definitely take it to mean of the total sale price including BP.

If this was for one $100,000 item it would be nuts, but if it is for a massive collection I honestly don't think it's out of line.

When we do a massive collection it's almost always on a tiered schedule so they pay less the better the items are, but the cheap stuff is going to cost a fairly significant percentage. 40% might be a bit more than we wind up averaging over a whole collection, but it honestly doesn't strike me as all that weird.

If other companies are offering him 100% plus BP I hope he can get the collection back because that would be stellar if we're actually talking about two truckloads worth a few hundred thousand. That's a LOT of inexpensive items that take just as much work to do properly as the good stuff. I'd worry that these other offers would only cherry pick him even further so that they're only taking the premium items to give him those terms.

[Vintage Vern]

A consignment agreement should include details about the parties involved, a description of the goods being consigned, pricing and payment terms, the consignment period, the percentage split of sales between the consignor and consignee, insurance details, any liability releases, and provisions for termination of the agreement.
Key elements to include in a consignment agreement:
Parties involved:
Names and contact information of the consignor (the person providing the goods) and the consignee (the seller).
Description of goods:
Detailed information about the items being consigned, including quantities, specifications, serial numbers, and any identifying details.
Pricing and payment terms:
The selling price of the goods, the commission percentage the consignee will receive, and the payment schedule for the consignor.
Consignment period:
The duration of the agreement, outlining the start and end dates when the consignee is authorized to sell the goods.
Ownership of goods:
Clearly stating that the consignor retains ownership of the goods until they are sold to a customer.
Insurance:
Who is responsible for insuring the goods while they are in the consignee's possession.
Marketing and display requirements:
Any specific instructions on how the consignee should market and display the consigned items.
Liability releases:
Provisions regarding potential damage to the goods while in the consignee's care and who is responsible for such damage.
Termination clause:
Conditions under which either party can terminate the agreement, including potential penalties for early termination.
Dispute resolution:
How any disputes arising from the agreement will be handled, such as through mediation or arbitration.
Governing law:
The jurisdiction where the contract will be enforced.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Last line on the contract appears to state 60/40 split on authentication which likely means the same ratio for that expense as on the final take. At least, that is how I interpreted that line.

I doubt very seriously the AH is covering all of the authentication fees.

Would the prior line, stating no additional fees, contradict (or negate) that final line?

Also, on that last line, who pays the 60% and who pays the 40% isn't specified. In other places, the consignor GETS the 60%. Does that final line imply the consignor gets, or pays, the 60%?

Would that ambiguity create a legal loophole?

[rand1com]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Would the prior line, stating no additional fees, contradict (or negate) that final line?

Also, on that last line, who pays the 60% and who pays the 40% isn't specified. In other places, the consignor GETS the 60%. Does that final line imply the consignor gets, or pays, the 60%?

Would that ambiguity create a legal loophole?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I know lawyers look for detailed contracts but these are very basic. There is a clause somewhere in there that states your signature makes it a binding contract based on the terms agreed to or some statement like that.

I believe the consignor pays 60% of the authentication fees based on the way it is written but that is a guess on my part.

[Vintage Vern]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I know lawyers look for detailed contracts but these are very basic. There is a clause somewhere in there that states your signature makes it a binding contract based on the terms agreed to or some statement like that.

I believe the consignor pays 60% of the authentication fees based on the way it is written but that is a guess on my part.

You can still get out of a binding contract and that's what a consignment agreement is.

[oldjudge]

I think Verkman needs to step up and explain how he views this transaction.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I know lawyers look for detailed contracts but these are very basic. There is a clause somewhere in there that states your signature makes it a binding contract based on the terms agreed to or some statement like that.

I believe the consignor pays 60% of the authentication fees based on the way it is written but that is a guess on my part.

Sorry to be harsh and of course for the OP's circumstances, but it looks like a case of consignor's regret to me and IMO just from general principles unless this deal is somehow unconscionable under industry standards, or is somehow missing enough basic terms to make it enforceable which I doubt (sure the ideal contract would cover a host of details but that's not necessary for a binding contract), then the OP will not be able to rescind it. Plus it's already been partially performed, as Leland's with the OP's consent packed the items and took them away. And maybe he got an advance too, I'd have to reread it.