This Probably Won't Go Anywhere, But...

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by NonSportDaniel

Do what you want and let others do what they want. Easy peasy.

Thank you!

[Peter_Spaeth]

...

[Al C.risafulli]

Once in a while I'll try and articulate this point, and I'm never quite sure if I'm getting it across the way I want. But I keep trying.

I view things like registry competition, protection from damage, etc. as byproducts (whether good or bad) of the real advantage that grading provides, which is the ability to buy online with some degree of confidence in what you're getting. For those of us who've been in the hobby for a while, of COURSE we know our cards better than anyone, and of COURSE the plastic holder prevents people from really getting to know an issue (i.e. paper stock, printing, etc).

Not long ago, our ability to collect was driven by the cards we had access to, either in our own geographic areas (via shows, trading groups, friends, etc) or folks that advertised in hobby publications. The internet gave us access to an entire universe of cards! Building a complete 1933 Goudey set once was a pursuit that might take a person his entire life. With the internet, and enough money, you could do it in a week!

The problem with this, of course, is that it could be more trouble than it's worth to buy online if all the cards were ungraded. One man's VG/EX is another man's EX/MT. I still remember buying a 1949 Bowman Johnny Vander Meer as a kid from a dealer that called the card MINT. I owned it for a while, and then tried to include it in a trade it back to him, and he told me it was VG at best.

Having that third party evaluation isn't going to be 100% accurate 100% of the time, but if you're buying online, sight unseen or through a scan, having a slab that says "this card is in near mint condition" can give you a reasonable amount of confidence in what is going to arrive in the mail.

Yes, grading has created an entire group of problems that didn't exist in the hobby beforehand, but at its core, I truly believe that grading has done far more good than bad, by allowing us to trust technology and grow our collections.

-Al

[Yoda]

?

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

...

Peter, you wouldn't have a RC of Sancho Panza available by any chance?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Yoda

?

Peter, you wouldn't have a RC of Sancho Panza available by any chance?

Very tough short print, on my grail list.

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by peter_spaeth

...

LOL Don Q.

[BioCRN]

Like it or not, for many people spending more than $20-$100 on a card they care more about PSA/SGC/etc opinion on a specific card moreso than almost any dealer or collector.

If this issue needed to be dealt with by the hobby, it should have been done 20+ years ago. Barring some extremely significant scandal it's probably not going anywhere...and we're not talking about a scattering of over-grading or missed alterations of cards.

At this point it's not only ingrained, but it's rudimentary entry-level collector stuff. The amount of new/novice collectors asking "Should I get this graded?" is extremely common.

Anyone can choose to make their own stand, but the hobby is strongly standing on the ground of grading services having a voice in the value of cardboard.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Like it or not, for many people spending more than $20-$100 on a card they care more about PSA/SGC/etc opinion on a specific card moreso than almost any dealer or collector.

If this issue needed to be dealt with by the hobby, it should have been done 20+ years ago. Barring some extremely significant scandal it's probably not going anywhere...and we're not talking about a scattering of over-grading or missed alterations of cards.

At this point it's not only ingrained, but it's rudimentary entry-level collector stuff. The amount of new/novice collectors asking "Should I get this graded?" is extremely common.

Anyone can choose to make their own stand, but the hobby is strongly standing on the ground of grading services having a voice in the value of cardboard.

We've already had the major scandal. Nothing changed.

[Seven]

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Seven

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

agree...this is my #1 gripe with TPG.

[mq711]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

agree...this is my #1 gripe with TPG.

I would hope they put more of an effort into grading and authenticating a card worth thousands than they do one worth less than a hundred; though I have no idea if the use more resources for this or not.

[campyfan39]

I detest grading and crack them all out if I buy one or get it in a trade. PSA is the worst. Aside from being built on a complete lie with the first card, they are incompetent.
Wildly inconsistent grading.

Last week, I sold a card on eBay. It was over 250, so my funds were "on hold" while they "authenticated" it. A week after arriving at the authenticator, I had heard nothing. I got in touch with someone and they were very nice. They said the authenticator noticed a slight stain on the back that I did not say in my description. This is despite my extra large photos of the back and there being no stain!
They said they contacted the buyer and he said he "knew the condition of the card to ship it to him and stop f'ing around so he can get it before Christmas!"

They are supposedly going to authenticate it now. So, there was not even a question of whether it was authentic. Now they are questioning stains and who knows what else. When I bought the card years ago, it was PSA3 with no qualifiers.

Makes me furious

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Seven

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

You know the answer.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You know the answer.

Of course, Peter. I think we all do. It just doesn't sit right with me. I know the rose tinted nostalgia glasses only highlight the good and not the bad, but the Hobby was in a significantly better place in terms of being just a hobby, years ago.

[butchie_t]

Originally Posted by Seven

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

Getting a loan from a loan shark is more reasonable than having to cough up the kind of coin for grading a 52 Mantle. That is freaking highway robbery.

Butch Turner

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Seven

My only issue with grading is that if a card is more valuable then it costs more to grade, which I think is preposterous. Why should it cost me more if I'm grading a 1952 Topps Mantle, then it would if I was grading a 1952 Topps Johnny Mize? The process is identical, it's not like anything should be done inherently different for one card than the other.

Does an art restorer charge more to restore the Mona Lisa than some random painting in your living room? It's not about the exact action they are performing, it's that they are being entrusted with the possession and care of a very valuable item and have to take that in consideration in pricing. Potential liability is a part of a business's overhead. And all overhead is baked into the pricing structure. The only other way would be to raise grading costs for every card and spread the cost out. But that would be too big a pill for their average consumer to swallow, so they won't do it. Their bread and butter is grading a million base cards a month, not 5 52 Mantles.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Does an art restorer charge more to restore the Mona Lisa than some random painting in your living room? It's not about the exact action they are performing, it's that they are being entrusted with the possession and care of a very valuable item and have to take that in consideration in pricing. Potential liability is a part of a business's overhead. And all overhead is baked into the pricing structure. The only other way would be to raise grading costs for every card and spread the cost out. But that would be too big a pill for their average consumer to swallow, so they won't do it. Their bread and butter is grading a million base cards a month, not 5 52 Mantles.

In my opinion this comparison should be like comparing apples to oranges. Our hobby should not reflect what goes on the art world. But that's neither here nor there. I know Why it costs more, I'm saying it shouldn't, it's not fair to the average collector.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Seven

In my opinion this comparison should be like comparing apples to oranges. Our hobby should not reflect what goes on the art world. But that's neither here nor there. I know Why it costs more, I'm saying it shouldn't, it's not fair to the average collector.

Remove the art restorer analogy. You are getting caught up in it. I wasn't treating cards like artwork. I just randomly chose a service where the same action performed costs different depending on how valuable the item they are performing it on. It could literally be any service. It costs more to change the oil on a Lambourgini than it does a Chevy. If you know why it costs more, then you wouldn't say it shouldn't. It costs more to the consumer because it costs more to PSA. Simple as that. And I just explained why it is actually more fair to the average collector. The average collector isn't sending 52 Mantles to get graded. If they spread the cost of risk for those grading 52 Mantles across the board, the average consumer would be paying $99 to grade a base card instead of $20.

[packs]

My collection is exclusively made up of collector grade cards. I don't really run into registry issues and I think people who do are doing it to themselves. I have no issue with TPA's and appreciate having my cards in a slab.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Does an art restorer charge more to restore the Mona Lisa than some random painting in your living room? It's not about the exact action they are performing, it's that they are being entrusted with the possession and care of a very valuable item and have to take that in consideration in pricing. Potential liability is a part of a business's overhead. And all overhead is baked into the pricing structure. The only other way would be to raise grading costs for every card and spread the cost out. But that would be too big a pill for their average consumer to swallow, so they won't do it. Their bread and butter is grading a million base cards a month, not 5 52 Mantles.

I would also hope the person cleaning your random living room painting is not the same guy working on the Mona Lisa.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

[G1911]

I have cracked out north of 1,000 graded cards, submitted 0 (if I was selling something high grade nice, I might do it because it might be more profitable, but there is 0 point in grading until you sell), and have ~75 or so in slabs now largely because I've had to promise sellers I will not crack them out in order to get them from people who know my penchant to liberate everything. I agree it is a stupid game, paying money for an appeal to authority to an unknown person at a company who is demonstrably incompetent over and over and over and over again. It's stupid, but if it makes money people will do anything, so it isn't going to change and while it can be fodder for some amusement it's not worth getting angry over or telling your buyers to fuck off for not paying graded prices for your raw cards or that you don't give a flying fuck what they think or want. Not many deals are closed for anything that way. You can't control other people, nor should anyone, so let them do what they want, have a laugh when PSA does something funny, and collect how you like.