Goldin Auction - Honus Wagner “Rookie Card”

[calvindog]

I don’t believe REA does this.

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I don’t believe REA does this.

They look good
*******

16. No Consignor Bids. Consignors are prohibited from bidding on their own materials or having others secretly bid for them on their behalf. If any consignor directly or indirectly bids on his own items at auction, it is without REA's consent, and REA reserves the right, at its sole discretion, at any time and without any warning, to remove any bids it suspects of being fraudulent or placed in consort with a consignor.

17. No House Bids. There is no circumstance under which REA may execute bids for its own "house account," thereby unfairly competing with bidders. In fact, to be clear, REA does not have a "house account," unlike many other auction operators. Under no circumstance is any employee of REA authorized to place bids in this Auction on their personal accounts. Employees of REA (and REA) may consign their personal property or owned items to this Auction, provided they will be treated like any other consignor (including not being permitted to bid on their own lots).

13. Opening Bids and Reserve Amounts. Each lot in this Auction is accompanied by an opening bid (meaning a minimum bid amount). Select lots may have a confidential reserve placed on them by the consignor, which means that the lot will not be sold until a bidder bids an amount equal or greater than the reserve amount. A reserve is set by the consignor (not by REA) when the consignor determines that the value of a lot is such that they are not willing to sell the lot if its sale price does not attain the reserve amount. The reserve notification may not post to a lot until the Auction is in progress and as late in the Auction as on or about 24 hours prior to the Final Initial Bid Day’s conclusion at 9:00 PM ET that day. Check back before the Auction’s Final Initial Bid Day ending (i.e., prior to 9:00 PM ET that day) to see any applicable reserve. The absence of a reserve when the Auction commences and early in the Auction process should not be interpreted as there being no reserve applicable. Lots subject to a reserve will be clearly designated as subject to a reserve (or using similar language) on their individual pages online in accordance with the timeline posted above. REA does not update any physical (printed) Auction catalog with reserves announced after the catalog was mailed to recipients; for the most up to date information on reserves, bidders should consult the lot details online. Until such time that the confidential reserve is met, the lot page will display "Reserve Not Met" directly underneath the current bid. Bidders may continue to bid on such lots using all available bid increments.

Once the confidential reserve is met, the status of the lot will change to "Reserve Met" on the lot’s online page. Reserve amounts will not be disclosed online but may be available upon request unless the consignor has restricted disclosure. Items with a confidential reserve may be accompanied by an estimated value. The confidential reserve amount will be lower than or equal to this estimated value.

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/terms.pdf

[oldjudge]

Nor does LOTG

[bcbgcbrcb]

So we think most likely only one bidder against the auction house at some point. Any idea who that bidder might be and/or at what point everyone else was out?

At first, this looks like a lost opportunity from the consignor standpoint because of the high hidden reserve. But, let’s say the second bidder was out of the running at $350K. The consignor only gets that amount then. But now, they have the card back with a $850K comp (sort of), although noted that the card did not sell. A couple of years from now, they give the card to REA/Heritage/AH. Most likely, the opening bid will be much more reasonable and interested bidders researching past offerings of the card will find the not met reserve at $850K and that number will play a significant roll in how high they are willing to go. Of course, if the item description is more honest and straightforward, that will have a huge impact as well. So, potentially, this consignor might have ended up with $350K on a card whose prior highest sale was $51K, now they are working with an unsold number of $850K. This may not be a bad decision at all by the consignor, I can see the logic in possibly getting a much bigger payday down the road and Goldin played right into it by allowing the $1MM reserve.

[Exhibitman]

How reserves may be used is a function of state law. Auctioneers located in states with less regulation are freer to do more hidden manipulation of an auction. You don't care for a particular auctioneer's policy, bitch to the state legislature.

All of the machinations have one goal: to generate 'action'. If the auction started at the reserve, there would be less action. The more bidders in an auction on an item, the more buzz it gets, the more likely others are to bid on the item. FOMO.

[calvindog]

A more important factor on whether a card is getting an unfair push in an auction is who the consigner is. An auction house may not bid on their own lots creating a fake hidden reserve, yet their consigner may be employing a myriad of accounts to push up the price of a lot. We’ve all dealt with collectors who think their cards are worth 3-5x market value and treat their cards as if it was their only asset in the world. Cards like that aren’t going cheaply or even for fair market value at an auction. When I see someone pushing a card on Net 54 in the most ridiculous manner, I’m certain to stay away from bidding on it at auction. Some people just can’t bear for the market to determine true value. If they're using sock puppet accounts here to fabricate interest or doing YouTube interviews or getting hobby publications to write about their card, you can be sure they’re getting their card hit fraudulently in the auction.

Also, if the consigner is listed in the Mastro indictment or shill bidder list as a fraudster, that may shed some light too.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

How reserves may be used is a function of state law. Auctioneers located in states with less regulation are freer to do more hidden manipulation of an auction. You don't care for a particular auctioneer's policy, bitch to the state legislature.

All of the machinations have one goal: to generate 'action'. If the auction started at the reserve, there would be less action. The more bidders in an auction on an item, the more buzz it gets, the more likely others are to bid on the item. FOMO.

Point well taken. These practices are permitted because state and local legislatures permit them. NYC has gone even further off the deep end -- https://www.huntonak.com/hunton-reta...rning-auctions

I don't know if it is because of increased state and local tax revenue these legislatures feel they will generate, or the prestige of attracting AHs to their venues, or to threats by AHs to leave venues unless certain rules are enacted, or a combination of the above, but it sickens me these practices are allowed. It is nothing less than legalized shill bidding, rationalized under the pretext that as long as the AH discloses to you (in the fine print) that they are trying to defraud you, the governing jurisdiction will not treat it as fraud even when the AH pulls it off.

I'd love to see the day some defendant in a civil suit brought against him/her for fraud raises the defense that since the plaintiff knew the defendant had a reputation as a fraudster, the plaintiff was put on notice shenanigans would take place and thereby as a matter of law no fraud could have occurred.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

NYC has gone even further off the deep end -- https://www.huntonak.com/hunton-reta...rning-auctions

Yikes

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by benjulmag

Point well taken. These practices are permitted because state and local legislatures permit them. NYC has gone even further off the deep end -- https://www.huntonak.com/hunton-reta...rning-auctions

Race to the bottom stuff...

[BRoberts]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Nor does LOTG

Nor does Andy Sandler’s All Sports Collectibles Auctions.