Warren Spahn - Why No Hobby Love?

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

I think there are many factors that come to play, though I'm not a big believer in the NY factor. There aren't exactly a ton of huge value pitchers from NY either.

Spahn had an extremely impressive career and a more impressive life, but he isn't the profile of a pitcher who becomes highly collected. While he did league the league in K's for 4 of his 21 seasons, he never K'd 200 in a season and his career total is not 2583, which is nice but not crazy. His K/9 for his career is 4.4, which is extremely low.

Additionally, while he was often a very good pitcher, he was only rarely an elite pitcher. His ERA+ was consistently in the 115-125 range, which is solid but not special. He had 2 seasons (1947 and 1953) when he was absolutely elite. He won just 1 Cy Young award (in 1957 which ironically was one of his solid, but not great seasons) and much of his value is in the sheer number of innings he pitcherd. His 162 game avg BWAR is 4.4 which reflects a very solid, but not remarkable pitcher.

Spahn's consistency and longevity resulted in some incredible career numbers, but his 119 ERA+ is the same as Red Faber, Ron Guidry, Bobby Shantz and Bob Lemon, some very good pitchers, but not all-time greats.

The pitchers who get collected are those who put up elite, elite numbers and are 'must watch' baseball. Spahn was boringly very good for a very very long time.

Hi Jeff,
Although I agree with some of your analysis, I believe there are several noteworthy omissions that apply to Warren Spahn:

13 seasons with 20 or more wins
8 seasons leading the league in wins
363 wins is fifth All-Time in MLB
63 shutouts is #6 All-Time" in MLB
Two no-hitters thrown AFTER age 39
Lifetime ERA was a solid 3.09
Cy Young in 1957
Sporting News Pitcher of the Year 4 times 1953, 1957, 1958, 1961
.995 Fielding Average (One of best ever in the MLB)
14 x All-Star- He appeared in 7 of them
World Series Champion 1957

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

Hi Jeff,
Although I agree with some of your analysis, I believe there are several noteworthy omissions that apply to Warren Spahn:

13 seasons with 20 or more wins
8 seasons leading the league in wins
363 wins is fifth All-Time in MLB
63 shutouts is #6 All-Time" in MLB
Two no-hitters thrown AFTER age 39
Lifetime ERA was a solid 3.09
Cy Young in 1957
Sporting News Pitcher of the Year 4 times 1953, 1957, 1958, 1961
.995 Fielding Average (One of best ever in the MLB)
7 x All-Star
World Series Champion 1957

You need to double the All Star appearances to 14 lol. Plus, anyone focusing on things like strikeouts and whip need to look and see that he led the league in those categories several times. He wasn’t just some pretty good guy that could go out and rattle off pitching wins (as if that would be a bad thing).

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Carter08

You need to double the All Star appearances to 14 lol. Plus, anyone focusing on things like strikeouts and whip need to look and see that he led the league in those categories several times. He wasn’t just some pretty good guy that could go out and rattle off pitching wins (as if that would be a bad thing).

Thank you, Carter08,
FYI, I corrected my bullet regarding All-Star games. I meant to state that he pitched in 7 games, although you are correct that he was voted in 14 times.

[gonefishin]

The following is from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers website:

Less well known than his professional athletic feats, but also impressive, is Spahn’s record in World War II. Drafted in 1942 soon after making his major league debut that year with the Boston Braves, Private Warren E. Spahn was assigned to the 276th Engineer Combat Battalion. While in training at Camp Gruber, Oklahoma, he pitched the battalion’s team to the post championship. In Europe, at the Battle of the Bulge, he earned the Bronze Star. He likely became the only major league player to receive a battlefield commission.

The 276th played a conspicuous role at the Ludendorff Bridge at Remagen, Germany. The retreating Germans failed to destroy this vital Rhine River bridge, allowing the Americans to pour across it in great numbers and drive into the heart of Germany. Enemy artillery severely damaged the bridge, and the 276th was engaged in making repairs under fire. A combination of German shelling, vibrations from American artillery, and heavy tank traffic caused the collapse of the bridge 17 March 1945, killing several officers and men of the 276th. Lieutenant Spahn was not among the casualties of the collapse, but while at Remagen he was wounded in the foot by shrapnel (“only a scratch,” according to Spahn), earning him the Purple Heart. The 276th received a Presidential Unit Citation for its actions at Remagen.

Here is a quote from Mr. Spahn in 2005, listed on the same website:

“After what I went through overseas, I never thought of anything I was told to do in baseball as hard work. You get over feeling like that when you spend days on end sleeping in frozen tank tracks in enemy threatened territory. The Army taught me something about challenges and about what’s important and what isn’t. Everything I tackle in baseball and in life I take as a challenge rather than work.”

So my conclusion is - What a career would he have had if not sacrificing his peak youth years in the Army?

Yes, Mr. Warren Spahn was one of the greatest baseball stars of all time AND a true patriot!

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

The following is from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers website:

Less well known than his professional athletic feats, but also impressive, is Spahn’s record in World War II. Drafted in 1942 soon after making his major league debut that year with the Boston Braves, Private Warren E. Spahn was assigned to the 276th Engineer Combat Battalion. While in training at Camp Gruber, Oklahoma, he pitched the battalion’s team to the post championship. In Europe, at the Battle of the Bulge, he earned the Bronze Star. He likely became the only major league player to receive a battlefield commission.

The 276th played a conspicuous role at the Ludendorff Bridge at Remagen, Germany. The retreating Germans failed to destroy this vital Rhine River bridge, allowing the Americans to pour across it in great numbers and drive into the heart of Germany. Enemy artillery severely damaged the bridge, and the 276th was engaged in making repairs under fire. A combination of German shelling, vibrations from American artillery, and heavy tank traffic caused the collapse of the bridge 17 March 1945, killing several officers and men of the 276th. Lieutenant Spahn was not among the casualties of the collapse, but while at Remagen he was wounded in the foot by shrapnel (“only a scratch,” according to Spahn), earning him the Purple Heart. The 276th received a Presidential Unit Citation for its actions at Remagen.

Here is a quote from Mr. Spahn in 2005, listed on the same website:

“After what I went through overseas, I never thought of anything I was told to do in baseball as hard work. You get over feeling like that when you spend days on end sleeping in frozen tank tracks in enemy threatened territory. The Army taught me something about challenges and about what’s important and what isn’t. Everything I tackle in baseball and in life I take as a challenge rather than work.”

So my conclusion is - What a career would he have had if not sacrificing his peak youth years in the Army?

Yes, Mr. Warren Spahn was one of the greatest baseball stars of all time AND a true patriot!

Amen!