Help Identifying 1880-1890s Photos

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

OK, we need some uniform and ear guys...

Top left of the Louisville photo looks quite a bit like Honus facially, but the uniforms and ears would dictate otherwise. Guessing those uniforms predate Honus' era. I'm seeing some of those silly hats that scream (DON'T CALL THEM) Scrapps!

[Fred]

Don, are all of those yours? Nice!!!

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by Fred

Don, are all of those yours? Nice!!!

I wish! A friend has them and is looking for more information.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

OK, we need some uniform and ear guys...

Top left of the Louisville photo looks quite a bit like Honus facially, but the uniforms and ears would dictate otherwise. Guessing those uniforms predate Honus' era. I'm seeing some of those silly hats that scream (DON'T CALL THEM) Scrapps!

Hahaha I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw that

Google reverse image search thought so too

But I’m not certain. Nor do I have my hopes up

[molenick]

The first photo uses the same image that is on the 1888 World Beaters cabinet but it seems like the photo posted is a later copy to me...but that is always hard to tell from a scan.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Several Major Leaguers in the Hamilton photo.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...gi?id=da99f9da

[molenick]

Here is a better image where you can read the player's names. Also, I see that the photo you posted does not have the players numbered...so maybe it is an original photo and not a second generation photo taken from the cabinet.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by molenick

Here is a better image where you can read the player's names. Also, I see that the photo you posted does not have the players numbered...so maybe it is an original photo and not a second generation photo taken from the cabinet.

Although Molenick has posted a copy of the image with numbers and names, the numbers are a little hard to read on the photo, so I've listed them below:

1888 St. Louis Browns

Top Row, L-R: Arlie Latham (3B), mascot, Tip O'Neill (LF).
Middle Row, L-R: Bill White (SS), Jim Devlin (P), Yank Robinson (2B), Tommy McCarthy (RF), Silver King (P), Joe Herr (SS).
Second to Bottom Row, Seated on bench, L-R: Jack Boyle (C), Nat Hudson (P), Charles Comiskey (1B), Jocko Milligan (C), Tom Dolan (C).
Bottom Row Seated on ground, L-R: Ice Box Chamberlain (P), Harry Lyons (CF).

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Hahaha I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw that

Google reverse image search thought so too

But I’m not certain. Nor do I have my hopes up

I'm not certain either, but my hopes would be pretty high based on the hair, eyes, mouth, bone structure.

It's a fair bit closer than this, anyway... https://www.ebay.com/itm/134082015029

[RUKen]

The Louisville team photo does not have Honus Wagner in it, but it does have Pete Browning, who ought to be in the HOF. He is on the far left in the middle row. The uniform shirts match the style worn in 1885 and 1886, but the caps do not match those seen in any other photos from those years (but the record is incomplete). The manager (in street clothes) looks like Jim Hart, who managed the team in those two seasons only. I've attached below a composite of the 1885 team in street clothes with IDs; in a separate post I'll attach an image of the 1886 post-season barnstorming team.

1885 Louisville Colonels

Top Row (L-R): John Kerins (1B), Amos Cross (C), Norm Baker (P), Al Mays (P).
Second Row (L-R): Leech Maskrey (LF), Guy Hecker (P/1B), Dan Sullivan (C), Chicken Wolf (RF).
Center: Jim Hart (Mgr.).
Third Row (L-R): Pete Browning (LF), Phil Reccius (3B), Joe Crotty (C), Monk Cline (3B/LF).
Bottom Row (L-R): Joe Miller (SS), Billy Geer (SS), Ed Whiting (DNP*), Tom McLaughlin (2B).
*Ed Whiting was a catcher for Louisville in 1884, but did not play for the team in 1885.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by RUKen

The Louisville team photo does not have Honus Wagner in it, but it does have Pete Browning, who ought to be in the HOF. He is on the far left in the middle row. The uniform shirts match the style worn in 1885 and 1886, but the caps do not match those seen in any other photos from those years (but the record is incomplete). The manager (in street clothes) looks like Jim Hart, who managed the team in those two seasons only. I've attached below a composite of the 1885 team in street clothes with IDs; in a separate post I'll attach an 1886 image.

1886 Louisville Colonels post-season barnstorming team

Jim Hart (Mgr.), center.
Clockwise starting after mascot (Jim Hart's son):
Tony Hellman (C/DNP), Reddy Mack (2B), Joe Werrick (3B), Paul Cook (1B), Monk Cline (OF/DNP)(under Hart), Dave Foutz (P/DNP), Hub Collins (LF), Phil Reccius (OF), Bill Dighton White (SS).
DNP indicates players who did not play on the Louisville team in the 1886 AA season.

[judsonhamlin]

I’m fairly sure it’s the 1887-88 Louisville team. The manager is Honest John Kelly and Lave Cross is top row third from the right. Joe Werrick is in the chair on the far right

.

Originally Posted by RUKen

The Louisville team photo does not have Honus Wagner in it, but it does have Pete Browning, who ought to be in the HOF. He is on the far left in the middle row. The uniform shirts match the style worn in 1885 and 1886, but the caps do not match those seen in any other photos from those years (but the record is incomplete). The manager (in street clothes) looks like Jim Hart, who managed the team in those two seasons only, so I'm pretty sure that that is the year. I've attached below a composite of the 1885 team in street clothes with IDs; in a separate post I'll attach an image of the 1886 post-season barnstorming team.

1885 Louisville Colonels

Top Row (L-R): John Kerins (1B), Amos Cross (C), Norm Baker (P), Al Mays (P).
Second Row (L-R): Leech Maskrey (LF), Guy Hecker (P/1B), Dan Sullivan (C), Chicken Wolf (RF).
Center: Jim Hart (Mgr.).
Third Row (L-R): Pete Browning (LF), Phil Reccius (3B), Joe Crotty (C), Monk Cline (3B/LF).
Bottom Row (L-R): Joe Miller (SS), Billy Geer (SS), Ed Whiting (DNP*), Tom McLaughlin (2B).
*Ed Whiting was a catcher for Louisville in 1884, but did not play for the team in 1885.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by judsonhamlin

I’m fairly sure it’s the 1887-88 Louisville team. The manager is Honest John Kelly and Lave Cross is top row third from the right. Joe Werrick is in the chair on the far right

.

Agreed; I had reached the same conclusion and was assigning IDs. Have a look at post #25 in this thread and let me know if you agree with the assignments.

[RUKen]

Originally Posted by RUKen

The Louisville team photo does not have Honus Wagner in it, but it does have Pete Browning, who ought to be in the HOF. He is on the far left in the middle row. The uniform shirts match the style worn in 1885 and 1886, but the caps do not match those seen in any other photos from those years (but the record is incomplete). The manager (in street clothes) looks like Jim Hart, who managed the team in those two seasons only.

I take it back; Jim Hart is not the manager in street clothes in this photo, it is John Kelly, who managed the team in 1887 and part of 1888. The presence of Lave Cross in the back row was the clincher; Lave did not join this team until the beginning of '87. I believe that this image dates from the 1888 pre-season, and they are wearing a different home uniform than was known for this team. I've assigned IDs to most of the personnel:

Top Row (L-R): Unknown (maybe Amos Cross, who played for Louisville in 1887 but did not stick with the team in '88), Jimmy "Chicken" Wolf, Paul Cook, John Kerins, Lave Cross, Hub Collins, Elton Chamberlain.
Middle Row (L-R): Pete Browning, William Veach (who appeared in one game for Louisville in 1887, but like A. Cross did not play for them in '88), Guy Hecker, John Kelly, Toad Ramsey, Bill White, Joe Werrick.
Bottom Row (L-R): Reddy Mack, Scott Stratton, Sam Smith.

Edited to add: I have subsequently determined that this is more likely an 1887 image, and a few of the above IDs are incorrect. Read on...

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

At least three of these photos apparently have Icebox Chamberlain depicted. Could there be a connection here? Was he on any of the other teams?

The OP is in northern Virginia; Chamberlain died in Baltimore. Very close by. Perhaps an outside shot these were from his estate? Who knows.

Is there any writing on the backs of any of these photos?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

The BHS team photo looks like a bunch of kids. HS has to mean high school. Chamberlain moved to Buffalo when he was very young. Buffalo High School, perhaps?

I dug up some of my old research. Chamberlain stayed in Buffalo until at least 1920, per census records and city directories. He was employed as a mechanic/machinist and sheet metal worker, all in that city.

[theshowandme]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

At least three of these photos apparently have Icebox Chamberlain depicted. Could there be a connection here? Was he on any of the other teams?

The OP is in northern Virginia; Chamberlain died in Baltimore. Very close by. Perhaps an outside shot these were from his estate? Who knows.

Is there any writing on the backs of any of these photos?

There is a connection!

I asked my friend for more info and he tracked it down.

This is pretty funny

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

OK, we need some uniform and ear guys...

Top left of the Louisville photo looks quite a bit like Honus facially, but the uniforms and ears would dictate otherwise. Guessing those uniforms predate Honus' era. I'm seeing some of those silly hats that scream (DON'T CALL THEM) Scrapps!

Honus did, of course, play for Louisville and is shown in their uniform on his Henry R.'s cigar card. The resemblance is striking.