Another PSA mess up? major card - AA to 5

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I agree — but the disclosure needs to be made. And since the card is already bid up without the disclosure they’d need to check with the current bidders if they’re ok with continuing to bid on a card that PSA has graded A at one point (and a lower numeric grade another). Really bad look for PSA but it happens to all grading companies.

Lol. What is there to disclose? The fact that PSA is incompetent?

[Bigdaddy]

In a previous life, I would always look for results that were accurate, reproducible and defensible. How does PSA (or any grader) stack up?

Accurate - Well, we don't have any widely accepted standard on how cards are assigned grades, and even the standards each company has change with time.
So, there is no 'truth' to measure accuracy against.

Reproducible - Many cards get resubbed, some over and over, looking for a bump in grade. If their grades were reproducible, then there would be no desire to resubmit for a better grade.

Defensible - Ever wonder why a certain card received a certain grade? Want to see the grader's notes? Mostly out of luck here.

As some folks said above, this is a PSA problem. However, it becomes a hobby problem when blind trust is placed on a result that is not accurate, cannot be reproduced and is not defensible.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

In a previous life, I would always look for results that were accurate, reproducible and defensible. How does PSA (or any grader) stack up?

Accurate - Well, we don't have any widely accepted standard on how cards are assigned grades, and even the standards each company has change with time.
So, there is no 'truth' to measure accuracy against.

Reproducible - Many cards get resubbed, some over and over, looking for a bump in grade. If their grades were reproducible, then there would be no desire to resubmit for a better grade.

Defensible - Ever wonder why a certain card received a certain grade? Want to see the grader's notes? Mostly out of luck here.

As some folks said above, this is a PSA problem. However, it becomes a hobby problem when blind trust is placed on a result that is not accurate, cannot be reproduced and is not defensible.

And yet...

[Carter08]

My view is that any t206 sitting in a psa 4 or better should be viewed as potentially altered at some point, particularly if it doesn’t appear to fill the slab all that much.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Lol. What is there to disclose? The fact that PSA is incompetent?

I am with you on this one. I have personally had a card go from PSA Authentic Altered do not slab to getting a PSA 8. I have many others but this one was fairly recent.

If you want a real dose of reality go buy 10-20 PSA 10's. Crack them out and resubmit them and see what grades you get.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I am with you on this one. I have personally had a card go from PSA Authentic Altered do not slab to getting a PSA 8. I have many others but this one was fairly recent.

If you want a real dose of reality go buy 10-20 PSA 10's. Crack them out and resubmit them and see what grades you get.

I'm sure at least a few would come back higher

[JohnP0621]

How can anyone expect a Major Auction House like Heritage , REA Etc. to inspect or look up the back history of all of the cards that they auction.
They receive the cards already graded and thats how they list it . How are they to know that the card went from a 4-AA-5 and which grade is correct. Its in the eye of the Grader.. I dont feel that its their responsibility to investigate each card. This crack and submit game happens all of the time Where a one grade bump could lead to thousands of dollars for both the consignor and auction house. I know that this game is played a lot with the New Shiny Stuff , Submit, crack ,Submit, Crack etc until one receives a Grade 10 and sent to auction house for big bucks. Everyone seems to be making $$$. I Guess that Its a Win, Win for all involved .(Or is it?)

John P

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

How can anyone expect a Major Auction House like Heritage , REA Etc. to inspect or look up the back history of all of the cards that they auction.
They receive the cards already graded and thats how they list it . How are they to know that the card went from a 4-AA-5 and which grade is correct. Its in the eye of the Grader.. I dont feel that its their reasonability to investigate each card. This crack and submit game happens all of the time Where a one grade bump could lead to thousands of dollars for both the consignor and auction house. I know that this game is played a lot with the New Shiny Stuff , Submit, crack ,Submit, Crack etc until one receives a Grade 10 and sent to auction house for big bucks. Everyone seems to be making $$$. I Guess that Its a Win, Win for all involved .(Or is it?)

John P

I think for the most part the issue is what should they do once they're on notice of something. But more generally, they certainly know who is consigning cards to them, and the reputations of some of those people, so the protestations of complete innocence ring a bit hollow to me.

[dabbuu]

What happened to the crease on the top right corner of the PSA 4, just curious?

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by dabbuu

What happened to the crease on the top right corner of the PSA 4, just curious?

It's still there. You can clearly see it if you zoom in. Just another example of PSA's incompetence, grading this card as a 5 with a significant crease on front. If graded today, it would be a 3 (or an AA, a 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3.5, 4,or 4.5 depending on which grader you get and which day they get it, but the most frequent grade it would receive if submitted 100 times would be a 3).

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think for the most part the issue is what should they do once they're on notice of something. But more generally, they certainly know who is consigning cards to them, and the reputations of some of those people, so the protestations of complete innocence ring a bit hollow to me.

You're still presupposing that what the auction house is now "on notice of" is something meaningful.

PSA graders are completely incompetent. They are throwing darts. How could it possibly matter which square a previous dart landed on?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

You're still presupposing that what the auction house is now "on notice of" is something meaningful.

PSA graders are completely incompetent. They are throwing darts. How could it possibly matter which square a previous dart landed on?

By your logic why does it matter where the current dart landed? But obviously it does.