Massive theft at Dallas card show, Nearly 2 Million Dollars worth of cards stolen

[G1911]

Originally Posted by CJinPA

LOL - come back a week later and little's changed.... many of you are living up to my perception. /smh

My copy of the transcript appears to be missing your valuable contributions that contrast with others.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by CJinPA

LOL - come back a week later and little's changed.... many of you are living up to my perception. /smh

[Kutcher55]

Well the thieves have yet to turn on each other, which is more than I can say for the participants in this thread nyuk nyuk nyuk.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

Well the thieves have yet to turn on each other, which is more than I can say for the participants in this thread nyuk nyuk nyuk.

People turning on each other is the new American way! (and no joking - it's been disallowed)

[Shoeless Moe]

THIEVES CAUGHT!!!! would be great, but still nothing.

[Yoda]

Perhaps this has been discussed before but this heist was well-planned, and I can't help but wonder if it was funded and organized by some rich collector with no desire to sell the cards but to gaze on his ill-gotten bonanza until he croaks.
If so the police need a break in the case, or I fear we may never see these jewels again.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Perhaps this has been discussed before but this heist was well-planned, and I can't help but wonder if it was funded and organized by some rich collector with no desire to sell the cards but to gaze on his ill-gotten bonanza until he croaks.
If so the police need a break in the case, or I fear we may never see these jewels again.

I mentioned this previously, but this theory seems a bit far-fetched to me.

My first reason being that any rich collector would rather just buy these cards, rather than attempt to rip them off. Why would some rich collector risk serious jail time and potentially losing everything simply to pick up some additional cards on the cheap? Certainly the perps would roll over pretty quick if they were caught, and the mastermind ordering the hit would definitely go down with that ship.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, while this is certainly a valuable stack of cards, it would seem to be an odd grouping for a single rich collector to want all of them for their own collection. For example, there are a fistful of low to mid-grade 311 Mantles here. While most of us love a good 311 Mantle, my experience is that a rich collector would be more inclined to pick up a high grade copy, and even then, just one, rather than a fistful. Similar concepts come into play for the rest of the pieces here. While they're definitely valuable cards, they don't seem like the kind of pieces that your average rich collector is dying to add to their collection, just to have and hold for a few decades. Among other things, it strikes me that your rich collector, unless they're newer to the hobby, probably already has a lot of these pieces.

Now if the theft included about a bunch of impossible to find pieces, or really high for the grade pieces, then I would agree with you all day every day and twice on Sunday. But as great as this stuff is, it just doesn't scream to me that this is a theft that was made to order by some fat cat collector.

[jingram058]

I agree with raulus.

Also:

How does Perp 1, who looks like the leader, walk around a card show with what appears to be a shoulder holster?

Do the cards depicted appear to be realistically priced with those colored price labels?

The whole thing appears to look bizarre as time goes by.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

How does Perp 1, who looks like the leader, walk around a card show with what appears to be a shoulder holster?

Forget it, James, it's Texas.

[Peter_Spaeth]

You can now buy ammo in vending machines in Texas. Convenient for sure.

https://www.tpr.org/public-health/20...-grocery-store

[refz]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I agree with raulus.

Also:

How does Perp 1, who looks like the leader, walk around a card show with what appears to be a shoulder holster?

Do the cards depicted appear to be realistically priced with those colored price labels?

The whole thing appears to look bizarre as time goes by.

In my opinion, the cards are priced above the norm to ready to retire on.. it’s not just him though, a lot of dealers at the big shows shoot for the moon.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

THIEVES CAUGHT!!!! would be great, but still nothing.

The images are clear enough for law enforcement to figure out who the individuals are, unless these are people who dropped down from outer space to commit this heist. Someone will identify one of them and the dominos will fall, assuming law enforcement is remotely competent. In addition, as far as we know, they may have already been identified and have been contacted by an officer.

[Johnny630]

The squeeze will be on...someone will rat...the thieves will be up shits creek soon enough without a paddle.

[steve B]

As far as the speed of the potential recovery.

Maybe as long as 10-40 years.

https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamps...use-cover.html

Things have improved as far as technology goes, so maybe a bit faster. But if they don't mess up it could be a long time.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I agree with raulus.

Also:

How does Perp 1, who looks like the leader, walk around a card show with what appears to be a shoulder holster?

There are 45 states (90% of all states), including Texas, that have open carry laws. Unless the venue prohibited it, carrying a firearm was permissible.

[G1911]

That is not a shoulder holster for a gun and does not look close to one at all. This theft has absolutely nothing to do with carrying guns.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by G1911

That is not a shoulder holster for a gun and does not look close to one at all. This theft has absolutely nothing to do with carrying guns.

Zero +1

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Zero +1

As long as it equals 1, all good. Gun control is a completely different subject and not really appropriate for this forum and had nothing to do with the heist. The card theft itself is definitely appropriate. I think we all hope the perps get caught.
.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Leon

Gun control is a completely different subject and not really appropriate for this forum
.

+1

[jingram058]

I wasn't talking about gun control in any way. Merely an observation that Perp 1 was wearing "something" that looked like it could be, to me. G1911 cleared us all up on that.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I wasn't talking about gun control in any way. Merely an observation that Perp 1 was wearing "something" that looked like it could be, to me. G1911 cleared us all up on that.

I echo you, Jim. I don't think anyone was debating the merits of gun control, or making any political statements.

I was just answering your question concerning how someone could walk around with a shoulder holster.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I wasn't talking about gun control in any way. Merely an observation that Perp 1 was wearing "something" that looked like it could be, to me. G1911 cleared us all up on that.

The last thing that team of four wanted to do was to draw attention to themselves in any way, walking around with a shoulder holster would have drawn a lot of attention.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by raulus

I mentioned this previously, but this theory seems a bit far-fetched to me.

My first reason being that any rich collector would rather just buy these cards, rather than attempt to rip them off. Why would some rich collector risk serious jail time and potentially losing everything simply to pick up some additional cards on the cheap? Certainly the perps would roll over pretty quick if they were caught, and the mastermind ordering the hit would definitely go down with that ship.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, while this is certainly a valuable stack of cards, it would seem to be an odd grouping for a single rich collector to want all of them for their own collection. For example, there are a fistful of low to mid-grade 311 Mantles here. While most of us love a good 311 Mantle, my experience is that a rich collector would be more inclined to pick up a high grade copy, and even then, just one, rather than a fistful. Similar concepts come into play for the rest of the pieces here. While they're definitely valuable cards, they don't seem like the kind of pieces that your average rich collector is dying to add to their collection, just to have and hold for a few decades. Among other things, it strikes me that your rich collector, unless they're newer to the hobby, probably already has a lot of these pieces.

Now if the theft included about a bunch of impossible to find pieces, or really high for the grade pieces, then I would agree with you all day every day and twice on Sunday. But as great as this stuff is, it just doesn't scream to me that this is a theft that was made to order by some fat cat collector.

Nico, I think you are right on all the points mentioned. He would most likely have some the cards displayed in Ash's inventory in higher grade.

I only wonder where the police start in solving this heinous crime. Trying to get a positive id on one or all the perps, I suppose.

[mightyq]

I think this get's solved depending on how much the police care. On a scale of 1-10 i say a 4.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I only wonder where the police start in solving this heinous crime. Trying to get a positive id on one or all the perps, I suppose.

I'm not a criminal justice expert, so I can only surmise based on wild guesses and my zero background knowledge of how these investigations work.

But it does seem like identifying the goons based on the video would be a key step. With any luck, they have other security footage from elsewhere in the venue showing other angles, and maybe with a little better resolution. The only trouble, of course, is that unless these goons are already known to the authorities, about their only hope is some sort of a database, or else someone from the public identifying them.

If that doesn't pan out, then it seems like it's a waiting game. Waiting for someone to notice one of these cards somewhere. Or for one of the goons to try to sell a big chunk of them at a venue that recognizes these cards.

Seems like one other potential is hoping the goons get greedy and turn on each other because they can't agree on an equitable allocation of their ill-gotten gains. Or some jilted lover who turns them in. Seems like that's how most of the accounting frauds get caught.

[nwobhm]

Originally Posted by mightyq

I think this get's solved depending on how much the police care. On a scale of 1-10 i say a 4.

1) Murder
2) Rape
3) Armed Robbery
4) Aggravated Assault/Battery
5) Kidnapping
6) Drug Trafficking
7) Terrorism
8) Treason
9) Arson
10) DWI
…
…
…
100) $1,000,000+ baseball cards left unattended.

To each his own but that theft wouldn’t be on my radar. If information came forward I would certainly investigate…. Beyond that, file a claim with your insurance carrier.

[Jewish-collector]

I was hoping the thieves got caught by now, so it's a little upsetting that we haven't heard any news yet.

[Snowman]

Those cards were across the southern border within hours of Ash's post. They're in the hands of the cartel.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Those cards were across the southern border within hours of Ash's post. They're in the hands of the cartel.

What’s the cartel going to do with them?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

What’s the cartel going to do with them?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Search the archives for Copperfield. I don't know if the FBI finally busted his ring, but he ran a multimillion dollar fake slab operation for years aimed at the US market. There could easily be an equivalent who would find ways to sell these cards into the US or globally. Speculating of course, but don't see why not.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Search the archives for Copperfield. I don't know if the FBI finally busted his ring, but he ran a multimillion dollar fake slab operation for years aimed at the US market. There could easily be an equivalent who would find ways to sell these cards into the US or globally. Speculating of course, but don't see why not.

Ehh think it would be small potatoes from them. They making billions from drugs through the border and human trafficking…


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[judsonhamlin]

Originally Posted by raulus

I'm not a criminal justice expert, so I can only surmise based on wild guesses and my zero background knowledge of how these investigations work.

But it does seem like identifying the goons based on the video would be a key step. With any luck, they have other security footage from elsewhere in the venue showing other angles, and maybe with a little better resolution. The only trouble, of course, is that unless these goons are already known to the authorities, about their only hope is some sort of a database, or else someone from the public identifying them.

If that doesn't pan out, then it seems like it's a waiting game. Waiting for someone to notice one of these cards somewhere. Or for one of the goons to try to sell a big chunk of them at a venue that recognizes these cards.

Seems like one other potential is hoping the goons get greedy and turn on each other because they can't agree on an equitable allocation of their ill-gotten gains. Or some jilted lover who turns them in. Seems like that's how most of the accounting frauds get caught.

These investigations take time. Time to gather all the facts to write an affidavit in support of any search warrants for geofence and/or cell phone data, time to get the warrants approved by a prosecutor, time to get them to a judge who has to read and approve them, time to serve the internet and phone carriers who own and service the nearest cell towers and have them respond and then try to sift through the data to exclude everyone else’s phone records. You know, all that pesky 4th Amendment stuff.
Facial recognition is not all that and unlimited breadsticks- there have been numerous and legitimate false arrest lawsuits where an arrest was based solely on facial identification.
Have some faith in and patience with the local law enforcement departments working this.
And the whole ‘flee to Mexico’ thing is a chimera. The cards are more likely to be, say, in Texas or Illinois or Kentucky as anywhere else. Rumor even has it that there are Latino citizens and residents in all 50 states, so…

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by G1911

That is not a shoulder holster for a gun and does not look close to one at all. This theft has absolutely nothing to do with carrying guns.

Perhaps a man purse? I think the FBI started a database of offenders around 2010, should be easy to track.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Ehh think it would be small potatoes from them. They making billions from drugs through the border and human trafficking…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Smaller crime ring?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Perhaps a man purse? I think the FBI started a database of offenders around 2010, should be easy to track.

Ideally Man Purse Most Wanted posters should be displayed at post offices across the nation.

Perhaps then our card snatching perps would more likely be nabbed and locked away where Man Purses are confiscated and only returned upon release.


Brian (to stay more strictly on topic, capture those card cartel members!)

[Exhibitman]

What if it’s a Bulgarian cartel based out of Mexico that hired homeless schizophrenics in Galveston to take the bus to Dallas and steal cards to order for the Outfit in Cleveland after the big Best Western heist went sour on them? It could happen.

[Kutcher55]

I ascribe to the Mexican cartel theory as well. I watched Better Call Saul and I could see a Lalo Salomenco type who likes baseball wanting those cards and maybe rewarding a few of his key henchmen with a 52 mantle or a nice Ruth.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Search the archives for Copperfield. I don't know if the FBI finally busted his ring, but he ran a multimillion dollar fake slab operation for years aimed at the US market. There could easily be an equivalent who would find ways to sell these cards into the US or globally. Speculating of course, but don't see why not.

I spoke to that guy several times on the phone. He laughed at law enforcement from his Mexico residence.
Totally weird. One time I tried to conference-in the Secret Service (or DHS, I forget), but it didn't work.

[bbcard1]

I think we can discard the rich collector funding the operation theory. Those were terrific cards, but are really not scarce. You can buy most any of them any day...just need the funds.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I spoke to that guy several times on the phone. He laughed at law enforcement from his Mexico residence.
Totally weird. One time I tried to conference-in the Secret Service (or DHS, I forget), but it didn't work.

As I recall they busted one of his "mules" out of Denver a couple of years back, but not sure if they ever stopped him entirely. Doubtless a lot of his cards are out there in the hands of collectors. I personally dealt with one where PSA's reaction was very disturbing. A board member I was helping had bought a PSA 9 Ryan RC out of one of the major auctions. I can't recall how, but it came to his attention that there was another Ryan 9 with the SAME cert in an older slab that had been sold by ML years before. He sent the card to PSA, with the idea being that they would confirm it was bad so he could get a refund from the house. Guess what? They claimed it was a clerical error and put the card into a new holder with a new cert.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Smaller crime ring?

That would you be more fitting.


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[LEHR]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

What if it’s a Bulgarian cartel based out of Mexico that hired homeless schizophrenics in Galveston to take the bus to Dallas and steal cards to order for the Outfit in Cleveland after the big Best Western heist went sour on them? It could happen.

I think you're on to something here. LOL

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by mightyq

I think this get's solved depending on how much the police care. On a scale of 1-10 i say a 4.

I agree. Had this been murder, the perps are probably in jail by now.

Ever check out the show called, "See No Evil." There are hundreds of murder investigations in that series where perps are caught simply using video. Great show!

If FBI and LE are doing their job, they know what the perps were doing in Dallas that day. Now, if they are from out of town or from places far away, this could get tougher. Locals will almost always get caught within a short few days because someone can ID them using photos, so the fact that there has been no arrest (that we know of) tends to show that these perps were not from that area.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Do we know the FBI is involved?

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do we know the FBI is involved?

According to this article they are:

https://www.fox4news.com/news/dallas...heft-trackdown

[Exhibitman]

Wait, they got the bastard who masterminded it:

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do we know the FBI is involved?

Yes, FBI is involved. Comes from a reliable source.

[vansaad]

Originally Posted by Kutcher55

I ascribe to the Mexican cartel theory as well. I watched Better Call Saul and I could see a Lalo Salomenco type who likes baseball wanting those cards and maybe rewarding a few of his key henchmen with a 52 mantle or a nice Ruth.

I can picture Hector Salamanca putting one of the '52 Mantles in the spokes of his wheelchair. Ding. Ding. Vroom. Vroom.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by vansaad

I can picture Hector Salamanca putting one of the '52 Mantles in the spokes of his wheelchair. Ding. Ding. Vroom. Vroom.

https://www.google.com/search?client...kFFOB6DJY,st:0

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by LEHR

I think you're on to something here. LOL

Makes perfect sense to me. I knew the Bulgarians were somehow involved.