Surprisingly low WAR

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Grich 71 never can get my head around that one.

Grich was one of my favorite players, and I always felt he was underrated. As a 2B in the 70s and 80s, he was one of the best at his position, when many 2Bs were not good offensively.

The thing about Grich was his consistency. In his first 9 major league seasons, he had 3,432 ABs and hit 161 home runs and batted .260.

In his final 8 seasons, he had 3,458 ABs and hit 159 home runs and batted .273.

So that's 17 seasons of averaging around 20 home runs per season and batting around .265!

IMO, that's a great player, particularly for a second baseman in the 1970s / 80s.

Is he HOF worthy? Probably not, but a great player nonetheless.

[gregndodgers]

Steve Garvey is an interesting case study. Is he HOF worthy? I think he is. I saw him play his whole career, and although I think it is a close call, he should be in the HOF. I offer the following for consideration:

1. I spoke to Garvey once and he said he could have hit around 30 home runs more often, but he would have struck out more and had a lower BA. he said that hitting for power would have hurt the team's chances of winning, and he valued winning games over his personal stats. And we all know that his teams won a lot!

2. Stat geeks that look at overall career numbers and WAR as well as people who never saw him play are not aware that he was a great clutch hitter! He consistently helped his team win games!
- In 55 post season games, he batted .338 with 11 home runs and 32 RBIs in 222 at bats. How many players can match that???
- batting average with RISP in 1974 - .330
- batting average with RISP in 1975 - .302
- batting average with RISP in 1976 - .297
- batting average with RISP in 1977 - .311
- batting average with RISP in 1978 - .320
- batting average with RISP in 1979 - .322
- batting average with RISP in 1980 - .315
- batting average with RISP in 1981 - .325
- batting average with RISP in 1982 - .291

For me, he was the best clutch player of his generation!

3. Garvey's 2,599 base hits ranks 84th all time! With that many hits, he should be in the HOF, particularly when you consider all of his other intangibles including clutch hitting, durability, his five MVP awards (1974 season MVP, two all-star game MVPs, and two post season MVP awards), and four gold gloves. How many players with that many hits are NOT in the HOF? Only a handful. Unfortunately, his late career start (he was not a regular player until age 25) and the shortened 1981 season due to the player's strike cost him a lot of hits.

4. Garvey was a 10 time all-star! C'mon, when you hear that, you gotta think HOF! He was the National League's starting first baseman in the all-star game for seven straight seasons (1974 - 1980), and he also started for the NL in 1984 and 1985. he was the all-star game MVP 2x (74' and 78'). So for those who say he was overrated or was not a good player, the fans who voted and his performance in those games say otherwise! This was a time with no internet and a limited number of ballots were handed out to fans who had to return them.

5. He played in Dodger stadium that had different playing field dimensions than currently exist. In 2004, they added several thousand seats behind home plate and along the base lines that removed 10,000 square feet of foul territory (a full one third reduction of foul territory!). Hence, the stadium is somewhat neutral in terms of hitting, but in Garvey's time, it was decidedly a pitcher's park. So offensive numbers were suppressed.

6. During Garvey's seven prime years (1974-1980), he had 200 or more hits each season except one (192 in 77'), he batted .311, averaged 161 games, averaged 103 RBIs per season and hit an average of 21 home runs.

7. In his 1981 book, Lawrence Ritter listed him as one of the 100 greatest players of all time.


Garvey's true value, which often gets overlooked, was that he consistently produced runs for his team and hit for a very high average. In other words, he valued hitting for average and driving in runs over hitting home runs. Remember, he grew up in the 1950s and 60s when batting average was more important than hitting lots of home runs. That's why his strikeout numbers were always low (he averaged just 70 strikeouts per season during his prime years).

I found a thread on Garvey here
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=247372

[Beercan collector]

I kind of agree about Garvey - not real similar to Rose as a player but both were spark plugs and both were good in the post season .
When Rose was on the Reds were good When he was on the Phillies the Phillies were good .
Garvey was good for the Dodgers went to the Padres and was good with the Padres .
For his career he batted .338 in the postseason
Edit :Gregndodgers Already noted his postseason batting average

[packs]

I don't see a HOFer in Steve Garvey either. Don Mattingly was better than him and he's not getting in.

Garvey is one of those guys who has a "HOF resume" but he's not the only player with one not in the HOF. Johan Santana won two Cy Youngs, has three ERA titles, and a pitching Triple Crown. Sounds like a HOF resume alright but in practice he didn't even survive his first ballot when it came to HOF voting.

[gregndodgers]

Garvey's chances were hurt by his well-documented off field problems. However, I still believe the veterans committee (or something akin to that) elects him into the HOF. He is currently running for to be a U.S. Senator from CA.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

Garvey's chances were hurt by his well-documented off field problems. However, I still believe the veterans committee (or something akin to that) elects him into the HOF. He is currently running for to be a U.S. Senator from CA.

So far, he's been on 4 different veteran's committee ballots, and didn't get enough votes to be reported the first 3 times. In 2020, he got 6 out of 16.

[Peter_Spaeth]

War 38. Ops .775. Obp .329. HOF no. That said, his RC will always enjoy some popularity.