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Reload this Page Poll - Greatest Living Player
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View Poll Results: Who is the greatest living player today?
Ronald Acuna Jr 1 0.24%
Johnny Bench 16 3.85%
Mookie Betts 0 0%
Barry Bonds 116 27.88%
Steve Carlton 0 0%
Roger Clemens 2 0.48%
Ken Griifey Jr 38 9.13%
Rickey Henderson 27 6.49%
Randy Johnson 3 0.72%
Sandy Koufax 52 12.50%
Greg Maddux 7 1.68%
Pedro Martinez 5 1.20%
Shohei Ohtani 18 4.33%
Albert Pujols 16 3.85%
Cal Ripken Jr 5 1.20%
Alex Rodriguez 0 0%
Pete Rose 39 9.38%
Nolan Ryan 34 8.17%
Mike Schmidt 17 4.09%
Ichiro Suzuki 7 1.68%
Mike Trout 1 0.24%
Other 12 2.88%
Voters: 416. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:12 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Suppose he used them previously specifically to recover from an injury. How is that different from Koufax getting his elbow shot up every time he pitched?
If you use something that isn’t banned, hard to say you’re doing something wrong. This seems fairly cut and dry. Bonds and others knew what they were doing was wrong. That some have slipped through doesn’t mean they should get in. That’s letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Good is trying to keep known violators out. That’s what the actual voters seem to be doing.
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:21 PM
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If you use something that isn’t banned, hard to say you’re doing something wrong. This seems fairly cut and dry. Bonds and others knew what they were doing was wrong. That some have slipped through doesn’t mean they should get in. That’s letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Good is trying to keep known violators out. That’s what the actual voters seem to be doing.
Except that it results in a totally skewed Hall.
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:24 PM
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Olympians get stripped of their medals for doping. Why hasn't Bonds been stripped of his MVPs and home run records?
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  #4  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:31 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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Olympians get stripped of their medals for doping. Why hasn't Bonds been stripped of his MVPs and home run records?
Now you’re talking. Agreed.
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  #5  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:36 PM
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Now you’re talking. Agreed.
Seriously. Why hasn't it happened? Rose was banned for betting on his team, but Bonds and many others (supposedly) completely compromised the integrity of the game but hasn't been?
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:40 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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Seriously. Why hasn't it happened? Rose was banned for betting on his team, but Bonds and many others (supposedly) completely compromised the integrity of the game but hasn't been?
If you’re saying you think he should be stripped of records I’m agreeing with you.
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:40 PM
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If you’re saying you think he should be stripped of records I’m agreeing with you.
No I am just curious at the apparent double standard or at least inconsistency.
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2024, 10:32 PM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Seriously. Why hasn't it happened? Rose was banned for betting on his team, but Bonds and many others (supposedly) completely compromised the integrity of the game but hasn't been?
He was banned, but his records all stand
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2024, 10:34 PM
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He was banned, but his records all stand
Yeah that makes a lot of sense, not to me anyhow. I know, different actors.
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2024, 12:43 PM
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Olympians get stripped of their medals for doping. Why hasn't Bonds been stripped of his MVPs and home run records?
I'm guessing it's a legal matter. If there is no evidence (like a failed test) he would probably sue MLB, would win and make MLB look bad. They can just ignore him and we can all talk about it. It's more important to us than them.
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2024, 01:26 PM
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I don't think changing the past is in baseball's bloodline. I really don't expect them to add asterisks or not acknowledge past records because it's steeped in tradition.

There is no asterisk on the 1919 World Series title, for example. And when given the opportunity to right a wrong and award Armando Galarraga a perfect game, they declined to do so even though the call was clearly wrong.
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  #12  
Old 06-25-2024, 07:03 AM
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I'm guessing it's a legal matter. If there is no evidence (like a failed test) he would probably sue MLB, would win and make MLB look bad. They can just ignore him and we can all talk about it. It's more important to us than them.
Agree! Just like when Jack Clark accused Albert Pujols of using PEDs, without solid evidence. Albert Pujols immediately said he was going to take legal action against Clark, and Clark backed off.
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  #13  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:42 PM
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Except that it results in a totally skewed Hall.
Yep, it's a big mess. We know that guys like Sosa and Palmeiro were major abusers. But we have a little bit of doubt about Piazza and Ortiz. And Pujols is probably OK, but are we really sure?

But hey. Your brain may be spinning, but Selig and Reinsdorf got another $500 million in their pockets, so it's all worth it.

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  #14  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:52 PM
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Yep, it's a big mess. We know that guys like Sosa and Palmeiro were major abusers. But we have a little bit of doubt about Piazza and Ortiz. And Pujols is probably OK, but are we really sure?

But hey. Your brain may be spinning, but Selig and Reinsdorf got another $500 million in their pockets, so it's all worth it.

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A lot of line drawing problems. Gaylord Perry probably cheated every time he took the mound. God knows how many guys used corked bats. Does it enhance performance to know what pitch is coming because your teammates are stealing signs?
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  #15  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:59 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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A lot of line drawing problems. Gaylord Perry probably cheated every time he took the mound. God knows how many guys used corked bats. Does it enhance performance to know what pitch is coming because your teammates are stealing signs?
I get your frustration but it sounds like you are saying it's too hard to figure things out, so let's just ignore it all? Or maybe, let's pretend it's all the same?



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  #16  
Old 06-23-2024, 10:08 PM
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I get your frustration but it sounds like you are saying it's too hard to figure things out, so let's just ignore it all? Or maybe, let's pretend it's all the same?



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I'm not sure. But a lot of injustice arises when you apply the laws unequally. Do we really think Papi didn't use, for example?
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Stuff trumps all.
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  #17  
Old 06-23-2024, 10:25 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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I'm not sure. But a lot of injustice arises when you apply the laws unequally. Do we really think Papi didn't use, for example?
That's why we leave things to sportswriters, since they are the most logical and consistent thinkers.

By the way, I think Ortiz likely abused steroids, as I said earlier. But it's ok that Papi and Pudge slipped in. Some people get in that don't really deserve to, that's the Hall. On the other hand, it's an abomination that Selig was voted in.

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  #18  
Old 06-23-2024, 10:00 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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A lot of line drawing problems. Gaylord Perry probably cheated every time he took the mound. God knows how many guys used corked bats. Does it enhance performance to know what pitch is coming because your teammates are stealing signs?
There are almost always line drawing problems but sometimes people are clearly on the wrong side of the line. Diaz was thrown out tonight for a foreign substance on his glove and he will be suspended. If he otherwise goes on to have a Hall of fame career do I think tonight should keep him out? No, although if he repeatedly gets caught I would listen to arguments. The steroid era guys at issue are not a close call. There was a major point of emphasis and rules put in place and these guys knowingly violated them and took steps to try to cover it up. Then there were lies to Congress that just added to the black mark. Bonds and Clemens were/are two of the best players to have ever played the game. Yet they played in and era that put an emphasis on no cheating via steroids and they said nope, f you.
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