The Future of Type I Photos

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

But here is what I am wondering. Of course, rarity/scarcity has been a big deal for a long time. But the top players always draw much value even when dozens, hundreds, even thousands of a particular card or issue exist. Yet, in many cases, Type I photos can be one of a kind or at least very few of a kind, with little chance that more will surface. PSA authenticates and presents them nicely in jumbo holders and the images are usually great--and in large size, and god bless them, usually without "centering" issues. Sometimes they were taken by the most famous baseball photogs. Anyway: As much as many of these have surged in value, shouldn't they actually go much higher in the future--due to the scarcity thing? Or even comparing similar images and size: Just for example, why should a Ruth Butterfinger or Ruth Quaker Oats, of which there are at least dozens, be worth more than a nice, similar, but nothing special Type I Ruth which might be one or three of a kind? Or pick your own examples of photo vs. card. Why should a Gehrig Goudey, almost too numerous to count, be worth more than a Type I Gehrig with a unique or nearly unique large image? Well, you get the idea.

Cards will always be the proverbial 800 pound gorilla of the hobby, with autographs second, then memorabilia including photos. It's exactly the uniformity of cards and autographs that lends itself to pop reports, price guides, etc., and places them alongside the big boys of collecting, stamps and coins. Photos are too individual to lend themselves to that kind of cataloguing, but, like everything else in the hobby, photos--and especially great ones--have been on a tear in the last few years, so it's not like they're falling between the cracks. I suspect that collecting top photos now, like other premium examples of memorabilia, will prove to be a smart investment down the road, perhaps even more so than cards or autographs. I don't know why that wouldn't be the case. I was floored today when I got the Heritage mailer with their WaJo uni on the cover with an auction estimate of 3M+. I was in Boston in 2006 when Sothebys/SCP ran that same uni in a very prestigious live auction, and if memory serves correctly, it went for somewhere around 150K. What happened to make it now worth more than 20 times that much? I don't know, although I really can't see it doing anything like 3M today. Just my opinion, though, and what the heck do I know.

[GregMitch34]

Good points, but what makes photos different from other memorabilia is that they are closer to "cards"--similar shape, often similar images or type of images (though not art/illustrations), but larger in size. A little easier to compare to cards than a ball or shirt of cap or bat.

[LEHR]

I love collecting Type 1 photos. Early photography is so much more interesting to me than most cards. As with card collecting, I tend to focus more on the obscure or second/third tier players as opposed to the elite HOF'ers, as I feel like these guys typically have more of a story to tell/discover.

[BioCRN]

One thing that seemingly hasn't happened yet is insiders making their way into news storage facilities and looting them like rare books/maps/etc and libraries.

It's hard to know how many are out there waiting to be "leaked" from their storage or newspapers/media figuring out those old photos are a hot revenue stream.

[jacksons]

Photos have always been more about the story to me than anything else. As a collectible, it marries so many elements together, each of which is compelling: subject, event, photographer, location, etc. This makes photos unique. I worry that they’re being treated as commodities in the collecting marketplace currently, being flipped by dealers to capitalize on their popularity, driven mainly by “Type”. Seasoned collectors that appreciate the story will always hold photos in higher regard though. Many of them are museum pieces, one of a handful known to exist. I hope they continue to be treated that way.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

One thing that seemingly hasn't happened yet is insiders making their way into news storage facilities and looting them like rare books/maps/etc and libraries. It's hard to know how many are out there waiting to be "leaked" from their storage or newspapers/media figuring out those old photos are a hot revenue stream.

I'm sure that's been going on for years. About 15 years ago, a notorious hobby figure named John Rogers set about buying all of the old newspaper photo archives he could get his hands on, and he got a lot by offering the owners significant money for something they had come to perceive as worth little and in fact costing them in storage space. Rogers was buying and selling thousands of photos a years for several years until he got busted for fraud in not paying his obligations and other nefarious activities. I don't know what happened to the photos he had when his operation went down.

[Swadewade51]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I'm sure that's been going on for years. About 15 years ago, a notorious hobby figure named John Rogers set about buying all of the old newspaper photo archives he could get his hands on

+1 yea this is one of the early topics of Jim Chapman's book. I'm fairly certain Rhys from RMY also had/has a partnership with Historic Images (https://historicimages.com/) and gets early looks into press collections.

Many news prints have been destroyed over time as companies went under, storage became to expensive, and the digital world expanded.

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[Exhibitman]

I think good photos have a bright future but meh photos are going to fall back. The main difference is that composition and quality of the image are big factors in desirability. A card is the same image, differentiated on condition. A photo has an aesthetic that depends on a variety of factors: subject, quality, composition, story. Here is a favorite of mine, the Cubs on Catalina Island for spring training, Gabby Hartnett at the front, walking along the harbor at Avalon imitating The Seven Dwarves doing Hi Ho It's Off To Work We Go from Snow White. It has everything I could want: good subject, solid composition, nice quality, and an instantly understood, whimsical story.



Or this one of Satchel Paige warming up:



I like a sharp, iconic portrait too, like this June 21, 1935 Joe Louis:

[prewarsports]

I will add a couple thoughts with quite a bit of experience. When I started RMY Auctions in 2013, everyone thought that photographs would never be a stand-alone hobby, but just things to throw into major auctions at the end. Now everyone has a photo division, but all they are doing is recycling many of the same images that have been sold and resold numerous times, because nothing new is really hitting the market. Photos were not worth much ten years ago and newspapers were calling to try and dump their photographs. We would go into basements and haul out dusty boxes of photographs just so that newspapers could clear out space in warehouses. Everything was "fresh to the market." In ten years the ENTIRE landscape has shifted. Newspapers and archives not only are holding onto their images, but treating them like gold and re-evaluating them as substantial assets, getting appraisals in the tens of millions of dollars. Most of the newspapers in the country are now part of large groups under a corporate entity. Rather than sell, most are being donated to museums for HUGE tax write offs, or scanned and organized in secure facilities. "The good old days" of ten years ago are a distant memory and we will never go back there again. Very few new archives will ever hit the market.

[jacksons]

All laid out here…

https://defector.com/he-said-he-was-...of-memorabilia

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I'm sure that's been going on for years. About 15 years ago, a notorious hobby figure named John Rogers set about buying all of the old newspaper photo archives he could get his hands on, and he got a lot by offering the owners significant money for something they had come to perceive as worth little and in fact costing them in storage space. Rogers was buying and selling thousands of photos a years for several years until he got busted for fraud in not paying his obligations and other nefarious activities. I don't know what happened to the photos he had when his operation went down.