The Future of Type I Photos

Hankphenom · #1 05-08-2024, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioCRN

One thing that seemingly hasn't happened yet is insiders making their way into news storage facilities and looting them like rare books/maps/etc and libraries. It's hard to know how many are out there waiting to be "leaked" from their storage or newspapers/media figuring out those old photos are a hot revenue stream.

I'm sure that's been going on for years. About 15 years ago, a notorious hobby figure named John Rogers set about buying all of the old newspaper photo archives he could get his hands on, and he got a lot by offering the owners significant money for something they had come to perceive as worth little and in fact costing them in storage space. Rogers was buying and selling thousands of photos a years for several years until he got busted for fraud in not paying his obligations and other nefarious activities. I don't know what happened to the photos he had when his operation went down.

Swadewade51 · #2 05-08-2024, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I'm sure that's been going on for years. About 15 years ago, a notorious hobby figure named John Rogers set about buying all of the old newspaper photo archives he could get his hands on

+1 yea this is one of the early topics of Jim Chapman's book. I'm fairly certain Rhys from RMY also had/has a partnership with Historic Images (https://historicimages.com/) and gets early looks into press collections.

Many news prints have been destroyed over time as companies went under, storage became to expensive, and the digital world expanded.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Exhibitman · #3 05-08-2024, 01:20 PM

I think good photos have a bright future but meh photos are going to fall back. The main difference is that composition and quality of the image are big factors in desirability. A card is the same image, differentiated on condition. A photo has an aesthetic that depends on a variety of factors: subject, quality, composition, story. Here is a favorite of mine, the Cubs on Catalina Island for spring training, Gabby Hartnett at the front, walking along the harbor at Avalon imitating The Seven Dwarves doing Hi Ho It's Off To Work We Go from Snow White. It has everything I could want: good subject, solid composition, nice quality, and an instantly understood, whimsical story.

Or this one of Satchel Paige warming up:

I like a sharp, iconic portrait too, like this June 21, 1935 Joe Louis:

prewarsports · #4 05-08-2024, 01:21 PM

I will add a couple thoughts with quite a bit of experience. When I started RMY Auctions in 2013, everyone thought that photographs would never be a stand-alone hobby, but just things to throw into major auctions at the end. Now everyone has a photo division, but all they are doing is recycling many of the same images that have been sold and resold numerous times, because nothing new is really hitting the market. Photos were not worth much ten years ago and newspapers were calling to try and dump their photographs. We would go into basements and haul out dusty boxes of photographs just so that newspapers could clear out space in warehouses. Everything was "fresh to the market." In ten years the ENTIRE landscape has shifted. Newspapers and archives not only are holding onto their images, but treating them like gold and re-evaluating them as substantial assets, getting appraisals in the tens of millions of dollars. Most of the newspapers in the country are now part of large groups under a corporate entity. Rather than sell, most are being donated to museums for HUGE tax write offs, or scanned and organized in secure facilities. "The good old days" of ten years ago are a distant memory and we will never go back there again. Very few new archives will ever hit the market.

Bicem · #5 05-08-2024, 01:46 PM

Great insight Rhys.

I collected postcards when no one really cared about them and they could be had for a fraction of what cards were going for. I feel like I'm currently at the exact same place with significant photographs.

Ruth final Yankees game...

Aquarian Sports Cards · #6 05-08-2024, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I will add a couple thoughts with quite a bit of experience. When I started RMY Auctions in 2013, everyone thought that photographs would never be a stand-alone hobby, but just things to throw into major auctions at the end. Now everyone has a photo division, but all they are doing is recycling many of the same images that have been sold and resold numerous times, because nothing new is really hitting the market. Photos were not worth much ten years ago and newspapers were calling to try and dump their photographs. We would go into basements and haul out dusty boxes of photographs just so that newspapers could clear out space in warehouses. Everything was "fresh to the market." In ten years the ENTIRE landscape has shifted. Newspapers and archives not only are holding onto their images, but treating them like gold and re-evaluating them as substantial assets, getting appraisals in the tens of millions of dollars. Most of the newspapers in the country are now part of large groups under a corporate entity. Rather than sell, most are being donated to museums for HUGE tax write offs, or scanned and organized in secure facilities. "The good old days" of ten years ago are a distant memory and we will never go back there again. Very few new archives will ever hit the market.

Oh I don't know, something new pops up every now and then

aljurgela · #7 05-08-2024, 02:03 PM

From his native island

Bicem · #8 05-08-2024, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aljurgela

From his native island

Didn't know Beckett used PSA's type system.

Lucas00 · #9 05-08-2024, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem

Didn't know Beckett used PSA's type system.

I think it was probably very early on they used it. And then psa said woa woa no more of that. I'm under the impression PSA has it trademarked. Who knows.

hcv123 · #10 05-08-2024, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aljurgela

From his native island

Great photo!

BeanTown · #11 05-08-2024, 04:36 PM

Completely agree with the comparison to postcards years ago. How can you not like unique poses and photos that have paazaaa� Attitude is good right?

Lordstan · #12 05-08-2024, 05:13 PM

While I agree photos may be undervalued in comparison to cards to a degree, I think it's really not a fair comparison per se. Rare does not mean expensive. Just because there is only one copy of something, doesn't mean someone wants it or will want to pay a lot for it. This is true for every type of collecting that exists.

The reason cards are proportionally more expensive is because more people collect them, hence more demand. Even though there is more supply, the demand still outpaces it. As photos grow in popularity, you will see prices increase simply because the demand side will go up. I agree with those that pointed out that the registry is probably the single biggest thing that made graded cards the rage they are now. When I started collecting and dealing in 1978, people were perfectly happy arguing about whether a card was Ex, Ex-Mt, NrMt, or Mint. Beauty was often in the eye of the beholder.

Since grading became the standard, more non passionate collectors(ie: "Investors") got involved because cards became a commodity. As long as you had a slab, it was easy to buy-sell-trade with minimal effort or knowledge needed. All you needed to know is that you owned the highest grade available and could brag about it to friends, etc as a focus of prestige. Most of the people back in the 70-80s and earlier, the hobby was more about joy and passion, than showing off to people outside the hobby. Most of my friends and acquaintances had no knowledge or interest in the hobby, so showing off a cool t206 card with a rare back had no impact at all. Now, we have so many new to the hobby people with more money than knowledge. What is really sad, is that it does not seem many have any interest in gaining the knowledge as long as they can buy slab with a really high number on it.
No other part of the hobby can really match cards that way. Autos, photos, etc are all collectibles that really are not uniform. They require more research and knowledge in order to buy/sell. As Loren has expressed, this knowledge gap leads probably a fair amount of people to be hesitant about jumping in. Autos are a bit ahead of photos as slabbing for them started much earlier.
Photos, of all types will likely increase in value over time. Just like in cards, the more desirable it is, the faster and higher it will likely go.

My standard advice every time I am asked about collecting is the same. Buy what you like. Buy what gives you shivers up your arm when you hold it. Buy what makes you smile every time you look at it. If you buy with an eye towards investment/monetary potential, you will win some and lose some. If you buy what you love regardless of price, you will never lose.

I buy Gehrig items, because I enjoy them. I have a very eclectic collection of other stuff that is rare and much of it is worthless in the marketplace. Do I wish I had bought more cobbs, ruths, etc? Yes and no. I had a blast collecting what I did, so while there is a small part of me that wished i would have bought more ruth, Cobb, Wagner, Matty, etc cards, I am ok with the choices I made. I got to spend around 14yrs with my dad going to 35-40 card shows a year, hanging with a ton of cool, and some very unique, people, talking sports all the time, all while collecting some really cool stuff.

Every post needs a photo, so here are two of my favorites, both from 1927

Exhibitman · #13 05-08-2024, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prewarsports

"The good old days" of ten years ago are a distant memory and we will never go back there again. Very few new archives will ever hit the market.

So true. You got in early and smart, Rhys. Did you have any idea what gold you were mining at the time?

One qualifier: there are lots of private 'archives' out there. For example, sports writers in the analog days had files of photos that they got from their jobs and those files come up for sale in flea markets, paper fairs, antique shows, etc. Most of it is dross but one can run across a vein of gold now and then. This 1969 Simpson premium came out of one such archive last month:

This Ali photo came from one I found at an antique show years ago:

jacksons · #14 05-08-2024, 01:17 PM

All laid out here�

https://defector.com/he-said-he-was-...of-memorabilia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I'm sure that's been going on for years. About 15 years ago, a notorious hobby figure named John Rogers set about buying all of the old newspaper photo archives he could get his hands on, and he got a lot by offering the owners significant money for something they had come to perceive as worth little and in fact costing them in storage space. Rogers was buying and selling thousands of photos a years for several years until he got busted for fraud in not paying his obligations and other nefarious activities. I don't know what happened to the photos he had when his operation went down.

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