Would you buy a 1933 Goudey Ruth Raw?

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, same with the cuts. Just use the same readily available equipment they used the first time.

The other is also very easy to obtain but I won't post it on an open forum. I believe someone once told me "it is just paper".

I really don't think that would work. It would be 100 year old paper used today. How could you realistically expect the paper to even be useable or to maintain the same characteristics as it did when it was brand new in 1933?

We've all seen people try to forge vintage signatures using vintage ink and vintage paper. It never works because the paper isn't new anymore and it doesn't absorb the ink the same way. It's typically pretty obvious.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

I really don't think that would work. It would be 100 year old paper used today. How could you realistically expect the paper to even be useable or to maintain the same characteristics as it did when it was brand new in 1933?

We've all seen people try to forge vintage signatures using vintage ink and vintage paper. It never works because the paper isn't new anymore and it doesn't absorb the ink the same way. It's typically pretty obvious.

I won't give details but you are extremely uninformed on the subject. They counterfeit extremely high end entire books that are supposed to be hundreds of years old that pass all the expert reviews. PBS had a great special on the subject. I posted a link when it was first aired but it wasn't too popular on here.

[packs]

Uninformed about what? Because you're talking about many different things at once. Reproducing a block printed book and reproducing a layered and multi-colored baseball card are two different things.

And anyone will tell you that old paper and new ink always look different than old paper and old ink. It's one of the first things you look for when someone is trying to sell you a cut. It's also why pencil is typically avoided. It doesn't have the same tell-tale characteristics as ink.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

Uninformed about what? Because you're talking about many different things at once. Reproducing a block printed book and reproducing a layered and colored baseball card are two different things.

And anyone will tell you that old paper and new ink always look different than old paper and old ink. It's one of the first things you look for when someone is trying to sell you a cut.

Yes I know, simple baseball cards would be so much easier.

[G1911]

If a crime is

1) highly profitable

2) easily or readily done

3) unlikely to be seriously punished

Then I would think there would be an awful lot of it. Conditions 1 and 3 are already met in the hobby. People are making and trying to sell fakes now, without any real punishment whatsoever for the fraud as the authorities are not interested in prosecuting these crimes, these fakes are just poorly done and obvious. That it is highly profitable to make undetectable or nearly undetectable fakes is obvious. So, if condition 2 is also met and it is pragmatically doable to make these, where are they?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

If a crime is

1) highly profitable

2) easily or readily done

3) unlikely to be seriously punished

Then I would think there would be an awful lot of it. Conditions 1 and 3 are already met in the hobby. People are making and trying to sell fakes now, without any real punishment whatsoever for the fraud as the authorities are not interested in prosecuting these crimes, these fakes are just poorly done and obvious. That it is highly profitable to make undetectable or nearly undetectable fakes is obvious. So, if condition 2 is also met and it is pragmatically doable to make these, where are they?

It is not that it can't be easily done. It is having access to the correct stuff to do it along with also being a shady person. Now that is a rare combo. The crap counterfeits you see now are not being made on original type equipment.

[packs]

Isn’t that like saying you could print your own money as long as you have the molds, same materials and equipment as the mint?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

Isn’t that like saying you could print your own money as long as you have the molds, same materials and equipment as the mint?

People print money every single day. I hear that printing $10 is the least likely way to get you caught. Sadly even that doesn't always work or so I have heard.

Cards are nothing but simple paper and ink. Take any picture to any real print shop and they can make as many exact copies on any type of paper or card stock you want. But yes baseball cards are magic and somehow special.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

It is not that it can't be easily done. It is having access to the correct stuff to do it along with also being a shady person. Now that is a rare combo. The crap counterfeits you see now are not being made on original type equipment.

That nobody has managed to do this and make the many many millions of dollars it would net strongly suggests it cannot be easily or readily or pragmatically done. People will and often do infinitely worse for much lower gains. I’ve yet to see any evidence that there are any real ethics in this hobby and that the dirtbags abounding wouldn’t do this because they aren’t shady enough