Memory Lane Gehrig expectation vs reality

[MattyC]

Precisely, TJ. Given how scans can not always tell the full picture (in either direction— either overstating or understating a card's flaws), if one is really very interested in a card at auction it can only be helpful to be a proactive buyer and inquire, ask for more images, etc.

We'd all love to collect/buy cards in some ideal reality where every AH takes a beat to make sure each and every lot description and image accurately presents the card as it is in hand— but it is doubtful that will ever be the standard or reality. Wanting AH's to operate in that ideal fashion makes all the sense in the world yet expecting it can lead to frustration and disappointment. So one way to try and mitigate those headaches is to be proactive.

[Mozzie22]

Watch for this card again after Kurt's Card Care gets his hands on it.

[Yoda]

If the AH doesn't do right to Travis due to their blatant misrepresentation, then they truly need to get blasted by those who condemn such an obvious injustice. Whoever did the description and omitted the obvious creases should get the sack.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Yoda

If the AH doesn't do right to Travis due to their blatant misrepresentation, then they truly need to get blasted by those who condemn such an obvious injustice. Whoever did the description and omitted the obvious creases should get the sack.

You might’ve missed a post or two. They refunded him and relisted the card with an accurate description and then posted representative photos.


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[Yoda]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

You might’ve missed a post or two. They refunded him and relisted the card with an accurate description and then posted representative photos.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks, Daryl, I should have read all the posts more carefully. Glad ML came to their senses. John

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Mozzie22

Watch for this card again after Kurt's Card Care gets his hands on it.

I definitely would have cracked it and cleaned it if I had kept it, but I don't press out creases, so I didn't want it after it showed up with those giant creases.

[Snowman]

There's been a new development in this saga with Memory Lane. In response to me posting this thread, they have revoked my bidding privileges. Clearly, they'd like to make a statement. If you criticize them publicly, they will punish you.

Thanks for showing your true colors Memory Lane. GFY.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Snowman

There's been a new development in this saga with Memory Lane. In response to me posting this thread, they have revoked my bidding privileges. Clearly, they'd like to make a statement. If you criticize them publicly, they will punish you.

Thanks for showing your true colors Memory Lane. GFY.

Travis,

Sorry to hear this is how Memory Lane decided to treat you after their obvious misrepresentation of the card in question.

Facts: Memory Lane lists a card in their auction that doesn't show the obvious multiple creases and wrinkles. Travis receives the card, sees the multiple creases and wrinkles, requests a refund, sends the card back, receives a refund without any communication or at least a minimum "regret any inconvenience." Memory Lane then relists the image of the same card again, is aware of this thread, adds a new image of the card showing the creases and wrinkles, then bans Travis from bidding because he shared his story.

Oh sure, Travis is the bad guy in this scenario. Shame on you Travis

My generation, we didn't have the internet or social media. This is what people do today, and I think it's a good thing. My generation, when situations like this occurred, the business always did right by the customer. Businesses cared about what people thought about their business. It was their reputation on the line.

Memory Lanes lack of professionalism and maturity is evident in this situation. Oh, and by the way, great job Memory Lane, you now have one less customer.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MattyC

In my own collecting experience, I've seen enough scans at various auctions of lower grade cards to know that a scan can more often than not fail to present the full picture. In reality, I would imagine an AH simply scans each lot and moves onto the next scan, rather than scanning a card and pausing to evaluate whether the scan adequately showcases all the card's flaws, and then re-scanning or adjusting settings to accomplish that. I'd therefore simply put some onus on myself as a shopper if I was interested in the item, and call or email the AH to ask for some more details or images.

So yes, it could be any range of creases or wrinkles and learning the precise degree of wear would matter a great deal; I'd choose direct communication with the AH about the lot as the best route to obtaining that information.

remember before the holders people would buy a card from a magazine or print material that just says 'NM' or 'G' Imagine all of the returns that would be made today stating the item does not fit the description..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Snowman

There's been a new development in this saga with Memory Lane. In response to me posting this thread, they have revoked my bidding privileges. Clearly, they'd like to make a statement. If you criticize them publicly, they will punish you.

Thanks for showing your true colors Memory Lane. GFY.

so people will learn that not putting them on blast and waiting to see if get a refund back before all of that i guess is their lesson..

i still think if someone feels that didnt get an accurate card and it cost them a few k, and a refund was not first given, i dont think they would care if prevented from bidding again as long as they got their money back

[Johnny630]

This hobby is ruthless wow.....sorry Snow.

Guess what they will change their minds again or claim mistake...you'll be back allowed to bid. Trust me...

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

This hobby is ruthless wow.....sorry Snow.

Guess what they will change their minds again or claim mistake...you'll be back allowed to bid. Trust me...

If so, why would he ever bid w/ them again?

There's alot of other quality auction houses to deal with that will appreciate his business

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

This hobby is ruthless wow

Not everywhere. This is still a great hobby with many great people and businesses. But I do see that there are definitely generational differences of opinion in how things should be handled, that's for sure.

I was born in the United States of America. I now sometimes feel like I live in the United States of Excuses.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I definitely would have cracked it and cleaned it if I had kept it, but I don't press out creases, so I didn't want it after it showed up with those giant creases.

Centering isn't perfect, so would you disclose this cleaning when selling?

Asking for a friend.

[Snapolit1]

Where is the chorus of people saying so and so is a standup guy, will do the right thing, etc.?

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Where is the chorus of people saying so and so is a standup guy, will do the right thing, etc.?

Steve, you so-and-so, you are a stand-up guy.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Where is the chorus of people saying so and so is a standup guy, will do the right thing, etc.?

That only happens when it is convenient for them.

I love this board, but I do know of several members that won't say things on a variety of subjects publicly due to fear of reprisal. And with what happened with Snow, who can blame them?

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

That only happens when it is convenient for them.

I love this board, but I do know of several members that won't say things on a variety of subjects publicly due to fear of reprisal. And with what happened with Snow, who can blame them?

If you’re right, you’re right. If you’re wrong, you’re wrong. I won’t lose any sleep if I’m shunned for speaking the truth. But I do understand what you're saying.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snowman

There's been a new development in this saga with Memory Lane. In response to me posting this thread, they have revoked my bidding privileges. Clearly, they'd like to make a statement. If you criticize them publicly, they will punish you.

Thanks for showing your true colors Memory Lane. GFY.

LOL, what did you expect to happen? I have been in the hobby for decades and this is usually how it works out.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Centering isn't perfect, so would you disclose this cleaning when selling?

Asking for a friend.

I wouldn't have sold it. But tell your friend "thank you" for asking.

[Snowman]

I guess it's time for me to post the other card I purchased from Memory Lane, which was the far greater "sin" on their part. Stay tuned...

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I guess it's time for me to post the other card I purchased from Memory Lane, which was the far greater "sin" on their part. Stay tuned...

We are all ears

[Republicaninmass]

If I had buyers remorse aka...I can't spoon out the wrinkles, i can only clean stain, and overpaid for a psa 1, hoping a quick bath would get it a shot at a psa 3, I certainly wouldn't blame the auction house. Since it isn't perfectly centered, I'd doubt you'd keep it. Great technicality on the unseen wrinkles though.
You grossly overpaid for a psa 1, which it clearly is and was.

[Snapolit1]

Never understood sucking up to auction houses. Is it ego? Desperation? Grown men want the approval of others like boys in kindergarten class sucking up to the teacher? Is it to feel important? Like a big shot? Breaking news ….. they charge you the same buyers premium no matter how many times you kiss their ass on this board.

I’ve deal with a number of AHs where issues have arisen. And they have been professional about it. And they get my repeat business.

Here’s an example ….. Al from LOTG reached out to me probably a year after I bought a piece of memorabilia to tell me further research and info he received from others convinced him the piece I bought was counterfeit and he was sending me a refund. Did he have to do this? Money out of his pocket. Sure he didn’t ask the consignor to send his money back. That’s called integrity. I’ve had Scott Russell send me a check for something I consigned long ago and totally forgot about. That’s called doing the right thing. There are still good people in the business.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Never understood sucking up to auction houses. Is it ego? Desperation? Grown men want the approval of others like boys in kindergarten class sucking up to the teacher? Is it to feel important? Like a big shot? Breaking news ….. they charge you the same buyers premium no matter how many times you kiss their ass on this board.

I’ve deal with a number of AHs where issues have arisen. And they have been professional about it. And they get my repeat business.

Here’s an example ….. Al from LOTG reached out to me probably a year after I bought a piece of memorabilia to tell me further research and info he received from others convinced him the piece I bought was counterfeit and he was sending me a refund. Did he have to do this? Money out of his pocket. Sure he didn’t ask the consignor to send his money back. That’s called integrity. I’ve had Scott Garner send me a check for something I consigned long ago and totally forgot about. That’s called doing the right thing. There are still good people in the business.

Well said!

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

If I had buyers remorse aka...I can't spoon out the wrinkles, i can only clean stain, and overpaid for a psa 1, hoping a quick bath would get it a shot at a psa 3, I certainly wouldn't blame the auction house. Since it isn't perfectly centered, I'd doubt you'd keep it. Great technicality on the unseen wrinkles though.

You grossly overpaid for a psa 1, which it clearly is and was.

The AH misrepresented the card, both with their description and their pics. No professional auction house should do that.



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[ejharrington]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Never understood sucking up to auction houses. Is it ego? Desperation? Grown men want the approval of others like boys in kindergarten class sucking up to the teacher? Is it to feel important? Like a big shot? Breaking news ….. they charge you the same buyers premium no matter how many times you kiss their ass on this board.

I’ve deal with a number of AHs where issues have arisen. And they have been professional about it. And they get my repeat business.

Here’s an example ….. Al from LOTG reached out to me probably a year after I bought a piece of memorabilia to tell me further research and info he received from others convinced him the piece I bought was counterfeit and he was sending me a refund. Did he have to do this? Money out of his pocket. Sure he didn’t ask the consignor to send his money back. That’s called integrity. I’ve had Scott Garner send me a check for something I consigned long ago and totally forgot about. That’s called doing the right thing. There are still good people in the business.

That was a class act on Al’s part.

[Fred]

Do you the reason Love of the Game auctions is successful? In a word - Al. He understands the business and values his clientele. Do you know why Love of the Game doesn't get trashed on this board? In a word - Al.

I've never met him but I've spoken with him on the phone a few times and you can tell he really loves what he does and cares about the people that bid in his auctions. Tell you what, if I were to open an auction business, it'd be modeled after Love of the Game.

No, that is not sucking up to Al, because I'm sure he's not going to give me a discount on my BP the next time I win an auction lot from him. People say positive things about Al because that's just the way he makes people feel, like they want to let everyone know they can trust Love of the Game and appreciate a business that cares about it's customers.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

If I had buyers remorse aka...I can't spoon out the wrinkles, i can only clean stain, and overpaid for a psa 1, hoping a quick bath would get it a shot at a psa 3, I certainly wouldn't blame the auction house. Since it isn't perfectly centered, I'd doubt you'd keep it. Great technicality on the unseen wrinkles though.
You grossly overpaid for a psa 1, which it clearly is and was.

LOL

If I had won this card and once in hand saw the scan and description were that misleading it would concern me about anything else I might want. Not suggesting the house was trying to deceive anyone but if I cannot rely on their photos or descriptions, then what is the point of bidding with them again? Begs the question why he would even think to do more business with them.

And it is common courtesy to take your gripes to the company and give them a chance to resolve the issue before prematurely smearing them in a thread yet I see it done constantly here.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

And it is common courtesy to take your gripes to the company and give them a chance to resolve the issue before prematurely smearing them in a thread yet I see it done constantly here.

To what extent is it common courtesy to provide insights that might help the full board to be aware of potential similar issues?

I suppose we can debate whether the name of the AH needs to be identified, but certainly it’s been eye-opening to me to see the difference between the card as originally advertised and as delivered.

[G1911]

The truth should always be told. Whether it's disclosing the truth of a cards condition, how it has been altered/modified/cleansed/worked on or what an auction house did. It is not wrong to state the truth, regardless of who or what agenda that helps or hurts or smears.

[SyrNy1960]

Fact: If the image of the card clearly showed the creases and wrinkles in the original auction, this thread wouldn't exist. The end!

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by calvindog

This was like a 2K card with an obviously bad scan, not a major sale. I have no doubt ML would have refunded the money once they got the card and confirmed the error/bad scan, regardless of Travis bringing it up here, as the mistake was that clear.

You guys can't really think that ML is in the business of ripping people off for a thousand or two thousand bucks?

If anything, and I don't speak for ML -- they surely could have been pissed about this being outed before they were given the chance to rectify it. I don't blame Travis for doing so, it's a hobby issue and he's certainly allowed. But the negative backlash occurred before they had the chance to make things right and they're not the auction house known for misleading scans. They could be a bit pissed.

No auction house is perfect and shit can happen with so many lots. In this hobby, if an error is fixed painlessly, we should celebrate it.

I can believe that an auction house has an unwritten rule that the scans for all cards will tend to show the cards in the best light possible, especially if the written description is accurate. If called out on a bad scan, said auction house will refund the customer immediately, no questions asked. It seems like a worthwhile risk that would likely result in thousands of dollars of extra revenue per auction.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

If I had buyers remorse aka...I can't spoon out the wrinkles, i can only clean stain, and overpaid for a psa 1, hoping a quick bath would get it a shot at a psa 3, I certainly wouldn't blame the auction house. Since it isn't perfectly centered, I'd doubt you'd keep it. Great technicality on the unseen wrinkles though.
You grossly overpaid for a psa 1, which it clearly is and was.

We aren't talking about what is done after the card is purchased. We are talking about the sale of the card and how the pictures/description do not accurate reflect the card. Bottom line, the auction house was at fault.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

We aren't talking about what is done after the card is purchased. We are talking about the sale of the card and how the pictures/description do not accurate reflect the card. Bottom line, the auction house was at fault.

Thank you! This keeps going in circles, yet it’s so simple to understand.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

Fact: If the image of the card clearly showed the creases and wrinkles in the original auction, this thread wouldn't exist. The end!

Yeah, but what's the fun in that. This thread is over 180 posts! But totally agree with that assessment.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

I can believe that an auction house has an unwritten rule that the scans for all cards will tend to show the cards in the best light possible, especially if the written description is accurate. If called out on a bad scan, said auction house will refund the customer immediately, no questions asked. It seems like a worthwhile risk that would likely result in thousands of dollars of extra revenue per auction.

But has there been any other claim that ML provided bad scans? I've been buying cards from auction houses for decades now and I've never had that issue with ML. Heritage is notorious for using scans that cover up flaws in cards as everyone knows (I know this from personal experience as well as the numerous collectors who have contacted me over the years with complaints and asked for legal advice). ML has had a myriad of other issues over the years, but bad scans -- at least to my knowledge -- has never been one of them. I could be wrong, but I think I would have heard about this issue before this thread.

[Republicaninmass]

I'm paying devils attorney..ahem advocate. Card was /is psa 1. It's hard to cheat and honest man. If it looked like a 3 candidate and made you think "hmm", remember all eyes are watching, including those running the auction. Nobody is letting that thing go.

[tjisonline]

This PSA 1 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig (cert 78153729) lot result went as expected (meaning what happens when this card was properly photographed and described).

Jan 13th auction. 14 bids. Final price w/ fees = $3763.20

May 4th auction. 11 bids. Final price w/ fees = $2546.40

About -32% price diff.


We in the hobby should continue to demand auction houses use proper descriptions and raw images and not enhanced w/ photo editing software. This would benefit everyone.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by tjisonline

This PSA 1 1933 Goudey Lou Gehrig (cert 78153729) lot result went as expected (meaning what happens when this card was properly photographed and described).

Jan 13th auction. 14 bids. Final price w/ fees = $3763.20

May 4th auction. 11 bids. Final price w/ fees = $2546.40

About -32% price diff.


We in the hobby should continue to demand auction houses use proper descriptions and raw images and not enhanced w/ photo editing software. This would benefit everyone.

How soon until this card "pops" back up in a auction? Over under 3 months?

[tjisonline]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

How soon until this card "pops" back up in a auction? Over under 3 months?

good question. not sure it will though as the card is pretty much “poor" (1) no matter. Really bad creases like some of my worn pants but def has nice eye appeal. No idea but if it does surface at auction in a diff slab, will be quickly spotted.

i'm more worried about auction houses stop w/ the vague descriptions and enhanced images. i went through the latter w/ the 68 3-D Clemente search. Enough is enough.

[JollyElm]

Maybe the next auctioner should include a free bottle of "Kurt's" with it as an incentive for the winner to turn it into a thing of even greater beauty (translation: a higher grade number) for when it's his turn to inevitably auction it off. Highly doctored scans will no longer be necessary.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Maybe the next auctioner should include a free bottle of "Kurt's" with it as an incentive for the winner to turn it into a thing of even greater beauty (translation: a higher grade number) for when it's his turn to inevitably auction it off. Highly doctored scans will no longer be necessary.

Exa rky, since you can't spoon out the wrinkles, it will be back in another psa 1 holder soon enough

[Snowman]

I discovered something interesting today. Or rather someone else pointed it out to me.

On the FTC website (linked below), in regards to his settlement, it reads "The settlement with Cohen announced today further bans him from making misrepresentations in connection with the sale of goods or services." Perhaps this is why he was so overly sensitive when I called him out on it?

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news...-telemarketing

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I discovered something interesting today. Or rather someone else pointed it out to me.

On the FTC website (linked below), in regards to his settlement, it reads "The settlement with Cohen announced today further bans him from making misrepresentations in connection with the sale of goods or services." Perhaps this is why he was so overly sensitive when I called him out on it?

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news...-telemarketing

I can see how someone would be sensitive to those allegations, given a $10M sword of Damocles hanging over his head tied to that phrase.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I doubt JP is worried about a 21 year old settlement.

[gunboat82]

Along the same lines as the OP, here's a card in the Mile High Extra Innings auction where the scan doesn't match the reality.

[Exhibitman]

WTF? How did they do that??

[Lucas00]

Its really not hard to scan a card with zero clean up effects. I would recommend everybody scanning cards to not alter the scan settings at all.
The official SGC scan BARELY shows the crease, just checked.

Its hard sometimes, even unedited scans (like regular photos) hide flaws just because of the angle.

[ruth-gehrig]

"Not readily noticeable"?