W575-1 Anonymous Cards (Not Hand Cut, Not Strip Cards)

[ValKehl]

Here are the cards you would expect to see from me.

I'm still seeking the E. S. Rice version for my Sam Rice master collectiom.

[Touch'EmAll]

Had this tucked away. You sure don't see these much. PSA has only graded one, an "authentic". And just don't see how they are hand cut.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Had this tucked away. You sure don't see these much. PSA has only graded one, an "authentic". And just don't see how they are hand cut.

Touch'EmAll, it appears to me that thet the bottom border of your very nice WaJo card is hand cut. This is one reason I suspect that your card is not a W575-1, but rather a W501 Type 2 (or W501-2) card, which to the best of my knowledge is not yet recognized by the TPGs. Net54er Rhett Yeakley wrote about these in the Fall 2011 issue of Old Cardboard Magazine - see pics of the relevant pages below. In addition to the way Rhett says you can tell them apart, I have found that the rectangular box containing the player's pic of a W575-1 card is approx. 1/16" wider and 1/16" higher than that of a W501-1 and a W501-2. I have also included below pics of my W501-1 and W501-2 cards of WaJo which appear to look more like your card than my W575-1 of WaJo that I showed earlier in this thread. I hope this info is helpful, rather than disappointing, to you. If Rhett sees this thread, hopefully he will chime in.

[brianp-beme]

Many W575-1 cards appear to be factory cut, but there are plenty of strip issued W575-1 out there as well. It seems like this set was issued in different ways.


Here are 3 that I believe were issued in strip form, as vertical strips. The first and third are W575-1 card versions that Rhett identified as having the same grainy look as the W501 cards, without the 'G-4 22' printed in upper left border and printed card number on upper right border. The Danforth is freakishly wide. I believe these W501 similar cards were also issued in vertical strips, as most of the ones I have seen have a non-factory cut on top and bottom borders, or jagged as if torn off from a roll, as Rhett mentioned in the article above. The middle card has a little bit of the top border line visible on its bottom border, as well as being hand cut to photo border on the sides.

w575dash1trio 001 (640x361).jpgw575dash1triobacks 001 (640x365).jpg


The first two cards in the next grouping are factory cut like Leon's example, and have a Henry Johnson and Service Candy Co. stamps (by the way, both have the same street address in Alameda, CA - two companies running out of the same building?). The third and fourth in the row are just normal W575-1 cards that appear factory cut.

w575onewhittedmilan 001 (640x261).jpgw575onewhittedmilan 002 (640x263).jpg


The following row of Steve O'Neill cards starts with a factory cut card (despite the post-factory wear on side borders), another Service Candy Co. stamped factory cut (stamp is very faint...you are going to have to trust me on this), and two examples that I believe are strip cards that were issued in vertical strips, with the third card being a non-grainy with nicer photo and obviously being cut down after the fact to remove side borders, and the fourth being one of the W501-like W575-1 cards. It is interesting that between the two strip issued cards there is a difference in the spacing of the line containing his name and the line with the team, as well as a similar difference in this spacing between the two factory cut examples.

w575oneoneill 001 (640x271).jpgw575oneoneillbacks 001 (640x273).jpg


Definitely a lot of versions of these cards out there, but understandably these long ago all got lumped together under the W575-1 designation because of the shared player photos.

Brian

[Leon]

How many strips have you seen?

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Many W575-1 cards appear to be factory cut, but there are plenty of strip issued W575-1 out there as well. It seems like this set was issued in different ways.


Here are 3 that I believe were issued in strip form, as vertical strips. The first and third are W575-1 card versions that Rhett identified as having the same grainy look as the W501 cards, without the 'G-4 22' printed in upper left border and printed card number on upper right border. The Danforth is freakishly wide. I believe these W501 similar cards were also issued in vertical strips, as most of the ones I have seen have a non-factory cut on top and bottom borders, or jagged as if torn off from a roll, as Rhett mentioned in the article above. The middle card has a little bit of the top border line visible on its bottom border, as well as being hand cut to photo border on the sides.

Attachment 607268Attachment 607269


The first two cards in the next grouping are factory cut like Leon's example, and have a Henry Johnson and Service Candy Co. stamps (by the way, both have the same street address in Alameda, CA - two companies running out of the same building?). The third and fourth in the row are just normal W575-1 cards that appear factory cut.

Attachment 607270Attachment 607271


The following row of Steve O'Neill cards starts with a factory cut card (despite the post-factory wear on side borders), another Service Candy Co. stamped factory cut (stamp is very faint...you are going to have to trust me on this), and two examples that I believe are strip cards that were issued in vertical strips, with the third card being a non-grainy with nicer photo and obviously being cut down after the fact to remove side borders, and the fourth being one of the W501-like W575-1 cards. It is interesting that between the two strip issued cards there is a difference in the spacing of the line containing his name and the line with the team, as well as a similar difference in this spacing between the two factory cut examples.

Attachment 607272Attachment 607273


Definitely a lot of versions of these cards out there, but understandably these long ago all got lumped together under the W575-1 designation because of the shared player photos.

Brian

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Leon

How many strips have you seen?

I do not remember any strips, nor have I really been looking. Certain of these W575-1 cards fall into a pattern of parallel, machine cut side borders and uneven top/borders, that is, in my opinion, consistent with them being from a vertical strip.

You had a great find with your W575-1 cards...they pretty much confirm that some (or many) W575-1 cards did not come in strip form.

Brian

[Touch'EmAll]

Great info on W575-1 vs. W501 Type 2, thank you, and very interesting. Both being obscure and super low pops is anything but disappointing. It's just really cool to own such a rare item. So should I just let it be as is encapsulated by SGC ? Or would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to having SGC take another look at the card ?

[Brian Van Horn]

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[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Great info on W575-1 vs. W501 Type 2, thank you, and very interesting. Both being obscure and super low pops is anything but disappointing. It's just really cool to own such a rare item. So should I just let it be as is encapsulated by SGC ? Or would there be any advantage (or disadvantage) to having SGC take another look at the card ?

If I were in your shoes and felt that my W575-1 was actually a W501-2, I wouldn't send it back to SGC without first speaking with someone at SGC's research dept. who claims to be familiar with the W575 and W501 issues (I don't know if this is even possible). If you get to speak with such a SGC rep and this rep seems genuinely interested in what you are explaining to him, then it might be worth sending the card to SGC for a second look. My guess is that SGC doesn't really care, but then again I'm not a fan of any of the TPGs when it comes to their abilities and desires to properly ID cards from obscure pre-War sets. And, before contacting SGC, I would contact Rhett Yeakley (his contact info is found in the "Vintage Links" section (see top of every page) and ask him if he has ever attempted to get any of the TPGs to recognize the W501-2 cards, and if so, what sort of response he received. If you do have a go at this, I wish you complete success.

[Leon]

The reason you haven't seen them is because they were never issued in strips, alas, not hand cut. When they are all wavy, they are trimmed. Not hand cut! And anyone that puts hand cut on their flips is just wrong. It's not a gray area... These number grades are total BS too...

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I do not remember any strips, nor have I really been looking. Certain of these W575-1 cards fall into a pattern of parallel, machine cut side borders and uneven top/borders, that is, in my opinion, consistent with them being from a vertical strip.

You had a great find with your W575-1 cards...they pretty much confirm that some (or many) W575-1 cards did not come in strip form.

Brian

[ghostmarcelle]

A favorite from my collection

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by ghostmarcelle

A favorite from my collection

Great card. The Henry Johnson stamped cards (as well as the Service Candy Co. stamped cards) that I have seen appear to be machine cut, just like Leon's examples.

Once again, I am not negating the fact that these cards were issued in this format, just indicating my belief that some of the cards that have been traditionally lumped into the W575-1 classification (including the W501-2 that Rhett was the first to identify) were not offered as individual cards.

Just as it is incorrect for the grading companies to automatically identify all 'W575-1' cards as hand cut, in my opinion it is also incorrect to classify all cards that have traditionally been classified as W575-1 to be machine cut.


Brian