2024 Baseball Hall of Fame Tracker

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by Svabinsky78

How do you see the Veterans Committee treating him? I can think of folks that were a lot worse that are in the hall ...Landis, Anson are just a few that come to mind.

He's going to need vets that didn't play with him or his peers. He wasn't well liked by many players, managers, or front-office guys before his...let's just call it post-retirement hobbies.

The "Wakefield incident" is yet another self-own unforced error for no reason whatsoever.

His skills say 2nd or 3rd ballot HOF'r at worst.

You have to be quite a remarkable person to manage to miss 10 ballots and only get 7 out of 16 votes in your first Vet's Committee vote.

[KJA]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

He's going to need vets that didn't play with him or his peers. He wasn't well liked by many players, managers, or front-office guys before his...let's just call it post-retirement hobbies.

The "Wakefield incident" is yet another self-own unforced error for no reason whatsoever.

His skills say 2nd or 3rd ballot HOF'r at worst.

You have to be quite a remarkable person to manage to miss 10 ballots and only get 7 out of 16 votes in your first Vet's Committee vote.

Seems like he thought the Vets Committee would vote him, I remember him saying he wanted to removed from the ballot on his last go around so that his peers could vote him in.

[G1911]

Schilling is a grade A example of the problems with the hall now. Steroids are waived for media favorites (Ortiz), clearly below level players are out in via committees filled with their former managers, owners and friends (Baines), Schilling is kept out for being vocally against media narratives (some of the things said about him being an asshole or right-wing true and some completely fictional and easily disproved), and others kept out over allegations without any public facing evidence and weighing of it (Vizquel, who was trending in and then immediately reversed and won’t ever get in now). We’re in another era where people’s agendas is overweighing any honest evaluation of performance. Historically the Hall has done pretty good, but this seems even worse than the Frisch era where the open corruption was more easily eliminated than the new ideology that merit is not the key component.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by G1911

Schilling is a grade A example of the problems with the hall now. Steroids are waived for media favorites (Ortiz)

Do you suffer from confirmation bias? It was PROVEN time and time again Oritiz DID NOT test positive for steroids from the age of 29 to 40. Is some corruption where MLB would fail Manny and pass Ortiz being a Media favorite? Honestly, being a red sox fan I am bias, but there was no proof of him ever having a positive test. His name was tied to a list in 2003 of a random screening which was supposed to be anonymous. His best years were after that. I guess he just had access to the better stuff or was able to mask it, when others were still getting caught. Because we was good at an older age, and Dominican, he fits the stereotype.

Sorry but no positive, no PEDS and he was one of the most tested

[packs]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Do you suffer from confirmation bias? It was PROVEN time and time again Oritiz DID NOT test positive for steroids from the age of 29 to 40. Is some corruption where MLB would fail Manny and pass Ortiz being a Media favorite? Honestly, being a red sox fan I am bias, but there was no proof of him ever having a positive test. His name was tied to a list in 2003 of a random screening which was supposed to be anonymous. His best years were after that. I guess he just had access to the better stuff or was able to mask it, when others were still getting caught. Because we was good at an older age, and Dominican, he fits the stereotype.

Sorry but no positive, no PEDS and he was one of the most tested

Giambi never tested positive either. He admitted he used and he used after 2003.

Ortiz was released after the 2002 season. He then signed with Boston at a time when he is said to have failed a test and began a HOF career. It is fair to talk about him in this context the same way it's reasonable to talk about Bonds, who played until 2007 and also never failed a test.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Do you suffer from confirmation bias? It was PROVEN time and time again Oritiz DID NOT test positive for steroids from the age of 29 to 40. Is some corruption where MLB would fail Manny and pass Ortiz being a Media favorite? Honestly, being a red sox fan I am bias, but there was no proof of him ever having a positive test. His name was tied to a list in 2003 of a random screening which was supposed to be anonymous. His best years were after that. I guess he just had access to the better stuff or was able to mask it, when others were still getting caught. Because we was good at an older age, and Dominican, he fits the stereotype.

Sorry but no positive, no PEDS and he was one of the most tested

LOL, Didn't Alex Rodreguiz pass ALL tests under the MLB drug testing program?

[packs]

I think it's reasonable to talk about Beltre too. It never gets talked about but if you look at his career, he tended to play really well in contract years.

His final year with the Dodgers sees him hit 48 home runs, a total he will never really come close to again. He then signs a free agent deal with the Mariners.

His career with the Mariners was pretty average with him never hitting above 300 and topping out at an OPS+ of 112 over his 5 seasons there.

He then signs a one year deal with Boston and hits 321 with an OPS+ of 141 (up from 83 the year before though he was injured) finishes 9th in MVP voting and signs another huge deal with Texas.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by packs

I think it's reasonable to talk about Beltre too. It never gets talked about but if you look at his career, he tended to play really well in contract years.

His final year with the Dodgers sees him hit 48 home runs, a total he will never really come close to again. He then signs a free agent deal with the Mariners.

His career with the Mariners was pretty average with him never hitting above 300 and topping out at an OPS+ of 112 over his 5 seasons there.

He then signs a one year deal with Boston and hits 321 with an OPS+ of 141 (up from 83 the year before though he was injured) finishes 9th in MVP voting and signs another huge deal with Texas.

All good points...

We watched LOTS of games when Beltre was a Mariner. Great glove, awesome arm... but "warning track power" is a generous assessment of his hitting as a Mariner. Granted, Safeco/T-Mobile is a Pitcher's Ballpark, however he still lacked the "clout". But he's still a sure first-ballot nominee, it seems.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Do you suffer from confirmation bias? It was PROVEN time and time again Oritiz DID NOT test positive for steroids from the age of 29 to 40. Is some corruption where MLB would fail Manny and pass Ortiz being a Media favorite? Honestly, being a red sox fan I am bias, but there was no proof of him ever having a positive test. His name was tied to a list in 2003 of a random screening which was supposed to be anonymous. His best years were after that. I guess he just had access to the better stuff or was able to mask it, when others were still getting caught. Because we was good at an older age, and Dominican, he fits the stereotype.

Sorry but no positive, no PEDS and he was one of the most tested

Can you read? When did I say he tested positive between the ages of 29-40? That is not a rebuttal to anything I said lol. When has that been the standard? You can cheat and do anything you want if it was before 29? It doesn't count if the public knows because the positive test leaked? Seems like a brand new standard created to exempt just one person!

[ChiSoxCardboard]

Picked up a Beltre 1997 Bowman Chrome PSA 9 this month in anticipation of his selection. Got a bit of a discount because the holder was pretty scratched up, but don’t need resale value. Feel pretty good about it!

Brad

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

there was no proof of him ever having a positive test.

Ortiz himself has admitted he failed a test. He's denied taking steroids but admits failing a test:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/d...sted-positive/

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by G1911

Schilling is a grade A example of the problems with the hall now. Steroids are waived for media favorites (Ortiz), clearly below level players are out in via committees filled with their former managers, owners and friends (Baines), Schilling is kept out for being vocally against media narratives (some of the things said about him being an asshole or right-wing true and some completely fictional and easily disproved), and others kept out over allegations without any public facing evidence and weighing of it (Vizquel, who was trending in and then immediately reversed and won’t ever get in now). We’re in another era where people’s agendas is overweighing any honest evaluation of performance. Historically the Hall has done pretty good, but this seems even worse than the Frisch era where the open corruption was more easily eliminated than the new ideology that merit is not the key component.

This. Plus 1000

[Seven]

Originally Posted by G1911

Schilling is a grade A example of the problems with the hall now. Steroids are waived for media favorites (Ortiz), clearly below level players are out in via committees filled with their former managers, owners and friends (Baines), Schilling is kept out for being vocally against media narratives (some of the things said about him being an asshole or right-wing true and some completely fictional and easily disproved), and others kept out over allegations without any public facing evidence and weighing of it (Vizquel, who was trending in and then immediately reversed and won’t ever get in now). We’re in another era where people’s agendas is overweighing any honest evaluation of performance. Historically the Hall has done pretty good, but this seems even worse than the Frisch era where the open corruption was more easily eliminated than the new ideology that merit is not the key component.

This is the part that stood out to me the most. Tale as old as time, when it comes to our Nations pastime. The writers have always had an agenda, like when they screwed Ted Williams out of multiple MVP's because they didn't like him. The same writers have always had an agenda when it comes to voting for certain candidates. Hell the Veterans committee wasn't much better.

What Schilling said was detestable, however he put together a Hall of Fame level career. He belongs.